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Thread: In military rout, Russia seizes 51 Ukrainian ships in Crimea

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    Re: In military rout, Russia seizes 51 Ukrainian ships in Crimea

    Tabloid trash info. Not real facts.
    News flash as well, the "west" has been spreading democracy for decades.

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    Re: In military rout, Russia seizes 51 Ukrainian ships in Crimea

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    I think that under EU/IMF/Nato auspices that the people of Ukraine will devalue their currency (not a benefit to citizens), raise the price od Energy (not a benefit to citizens), lower pensions (not a benefit to citizens), be forced to use Ukraine Patrimony to collateralize IMF loans (resources, pipelines, etc.), be forced to pay as you go plan for Russian gas (due to historic delinquencies), suffer from a citizenry split 50% by ideology to prevent progress (like repub/dem in USA), lower wages, higher unemployment, among other things, but those are the realistic projections of Western banking austerity.
    They were in economic trouble before this, and what had to get this help anyways. It is better to get economic help form the EU than it is form Russia. They need the money for stimulus, there is also no basis for any of these claims. What Ukraine needs is the EU, the economy will improve if it starts opening itself up more to the EU.

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    Re: In military rout, Russia seizes 51 Ukrainian ships in Crimea

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Tabloid trash info. Not real facts.
    News flash as well, the "west" has been spreading democracy for decades.


    first you say its trash!

    then you admit its true, by saying its going on!

    where is the authority in the constitution?

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    Re: In military rout, Russia seizes 51 Ukrainian ships in Crimea

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Still pretty far from a hostile take over.
    Well you have to remember.....the Acting Prime Minister use to be their President and that corruption ran high under him too. The only difference him and his group have been pushing for the Westernization. Then the Push on Russia.

    Yet notice our Politicians will use the term Greater Democracy......there is no such thing. There is just Democracy.



    THE BLACK SEA FLEET

    On Crimea's southern shore sits the port city of Sevastopol, home to the Russian Black Sea Fleet and its thousands of naval personnel. Russia kept its half of the Soviet fleet, but was rattled in 2009 when the pro-Western Ukrainian President Viktor Yuschenko warned that it would have to leave the key port by 2017. Shortly after pro-Russian Viktor Yanukovych was elected president in 2010, he agreed to extend the Russian lease until 2042. Russia fears that Ukraine's new pro-Western government could evict it......snip~

    How Crimea differs from the rest of Ukraine

    Page Not Found - Debate Politics Forums (The Ukrainian Crisis 2014.....)

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    Re: In military rout, Russia seizes 51 Ukrainian ships in Crimea

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    He will have to be stopped at some point. Now? Or when he is too powerful?
    True, but planning that eventuality means that you start planning for it like hello, yesterday or I dunno, how about last month. The key to chess is having an ability superior to your opponent in predicting and influencing future outcomes, provided you've established all the possibilities for each scenario. The key to poker is having the best hand, or appearing too.

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    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: In military rout, Russia seizes 51 Ukrainian ships in Crimea

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    Well, I'm not Nostradamus but I can just foresee Russians dealing with more terrorist attacks over this. If Americans won't get ugly with Russia, some group might organize and wage a bit of sabotage, some subversion with some nasty attacks. It wouldn't surprise me either that the CIA might have something to do with it covertly. Something like what the US did in Afghanistan to put the Russians on their heels.
    No, Terrorist groups pretty much learned their lesson in fighting with Russians. Russians have no problem killing the whole family to send a message to others.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: In military rout, Russia seizes 51 Ukrainian ships in Crimea

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Actually his first "invasion" was Rhineland.
    How can you invade a region that was part of Germany? You mean he kicked out the Occupiers?
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: In military rout, Russia seizes 51 Ukrainian ships in Crimea

    Quote Originally Posted by Carjosse View Post
    I don't see how violating Ukraine's sovereignty and invading it makes Putin the good guy, he would be the good guy if he let Ukraine join the EU and choose it's own path.
    Well, the good guy according to you. It wouldn't make him the good guy according to Gazprom or Russian oligarchs.

    Then what about Crimea? Why should Ukraine be allowed to choose it's path, but not Crimea?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: In military rout, Russia seizes 51 Ukrainian ships in Crimea

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    News flash as well, the "west" has been spreading democracy for decades.
    If we were interested in democracy here, wouldn't we be pushing for Yanukovich to be re-instated and the election process to be respected? You may not like him, I know I don't, but he was the duly elected President of Ukraine.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: In military rout, Russia seizes 51 Ukrainian ships in Crimea

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    How can you invade a region that was part of Germany? You mean he kicked out the Occupiers?
    You would have to read the Treaty of Versailles. Not sure, but he took it back. Many thought it was a "testing of the waters" and since no one said anything, he took it as a go for whatever else he wanted to do.

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