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Thread: In military rout, Russia seizes 51 Ukrainian ships in Crimea

  1. #101
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    Re: In military rout, Russia seizes 51 Ukrainian ships in Crimea

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    Treaty of Versailles only said Germany couldn't militarize it. Rhineland was part of Germany, so was Saarland (but under French rule). In 1935 Saarland voted to be release back to Germany. Rhineland itself included cities like Cologne, Mainz, Mannheim, Dusseldorf. Germany's industry sector.

    Sudetenland was known as German Bohemians as well. After WW1 Germans in this area protested and protested and protested only to be put down by the newly formed Czech military. US Ambassador Archibald Cary Coolidge told Wilson to give certain regions like Cheb to Germany and South Moravia and South Bohemia to Austria. This was ignored.
    What part of Germany included Belgium. the Netherlands, Holland, Norway, and Russia? Damn, we have seriously misjudged Adolph all these years. He was just trying to reunite all those peace loving Germans in one big country!
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    Re: In military rout, Russia seizes 51 Ukrainian ships in Crimea

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Paris was not fought for or defended.
    France caved without much of a fight. In exchange for craven surrender, they got to keep Paris spotless and were rewarded by Hitler with Vichy France. Then they actively cooperated with Hitler in rounding up their Jews as quickly as possible.
    "Groups with guitars are on the way out, Mr. Epstein"

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    Re: In military rout, Russia seizes 51 Ukrainian ships in Crimea

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    That is an nonsensical statement. The Crimea was Ukraine.
    Crimea was part of the modern state of Ukraine. The people of Crimea chose their path, and if the argument is that the people of other parts of Ukraine deserve the self-determination to join the EU, why do the people of Crimea not get that same right?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.

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    Re: In military rout, Russia seizes 51 Ukrainian ships in Crimea

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Paris was not fought for or defended.
    That's cause France got it's ass handed to them all the way to when their backs were up against Paris. They were broken and couldn't hold a line. Historical facts are nice some times. Your welcome for providing them.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: In military rout, Russia seizes 51 Ukrainian ships in Crimea

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    God, not another Nazi worshipper here! Where is Stormfront when you really need it? Hey - come get your guys back!
    Actually, your ignorance is your failure here. Rhineland which "demilitarized" after WW1 legally remained part of Germany. Triple Entente had troops in the region until 1930. Just stating historical fact.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: In military rout, Russia seizes 51 Ukrainian ships in Crimea

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    That's cause France got it's ass handed to them all the way to when their backs were up against Paris. They were broken and couldn't hold a line. Historical facts are nice some times. Your welcome for providing them.
    Kinda funny how I provided them first, but you are welcome anyway to them. This is not a test, its history repeating it self and we are just going to watch it on the news.

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    Re: In military rout, Russia seizes 51 Ukrainian ships in Crimea

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Ukraine is not fighting Russia because they don't have a chance. So you have the Hollywood view of the Alamo. Those at the Alamo had an arsenal of cannons, vastly more than Santa Anna. They believed Sam Houston would come with the Texas army for those cannons, which is how they held off the initial wave attacks. When they learned Houston would not come Santa Anna had already given the death ultimatum. The line in the dirt is a myth as at that point they were surrounded and there was no escape. They did not decide to make the "ultimate sacrifice." They miscalculated Sam Houston, were surrounded, and had been told no prisoners would be taken alive. At least you are one people who believes Hitler was correct to tell Germans at Stalingrad to fight to the death of the last soldier and his declaring all Germans should die rather than surrender - since that is your repeated view now.
    The Ukraine would fight IF TRUE territory belonging to Ukraine was invaded.

    No Sir, I have a very accurate view of the Alamo. Too large a complex to be held by 100 men. The defenders had 20 cannon to defend a 360 perimeter, Santa Anna could concentrate his in three batteries to batter the adobe walls. The cannon were poorly sited to 'hold-off' a ground attack as many were up on the parapets, unable to fire at a negative elevation. Cannons of the day fired solid shot, sperical shells with very poor fusing and canister. by far the best anti-infantry load was canister but the cannons couldn't be depressed in order to fire it at the ranges that would have been effective so as the approaching infantry got into canister range the cannon couldn't fire from the parapets leaving only the ground mounted guns to be effective.

    I understand how those who never stood for something can denigrate the sacrifice of those who have fought and died. Howsomever there many opportunities to escape and at least a dozen men left before the final battle. The soldier doesn't think what are his odds of surviving a battle before accepting battle, death in victory or defeat is still death. Your mantra seems to be if I can't be assured of surviving and victory I choose not to defend my land? Hardly what any army uses as a benchmark.

    Again you make crap up. I never said in a hopeless situation obeying an order to die rather than surrender is correct. Am saying there comes a time where a soldier must stand and defend the motherland even if the odds don't seem good. Many German soldiers knew the War was lost by 1944 but fought and died. Our history had us as the primary fighters against England rather than sitting back begging France to fight for us.

    To expect the USofA to fight for Ukrainians interests in the Crimea is absurd. THEY don't even want to fight for the Crimea.

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    Re: In military rout, Russia seizes 51 Ukrainian ships in Crimea

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Well, the good guy according to you. It wouldn't make him the good guy according to Gazprom or Russian oligarchs.

    Then what about Crimea? Why should Ukraine be allowed to choose it's path, but not Crimea?
    Well holding a referendum at gunpoint is not letting Crimea choose it's own path. Putin is the bad guy here, unless yes you are talking about Russia and Gazprom. He is preventing Ukraine from taking it's own path towards the EU.

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    Re: In military rout, Russia seizes 51 Ukrainian ships in Crimea

    Quote Originally Posted by Carjosse View Post
    Well holding a referendum at gunpoint is not letting Crimea choose it's own path. Putin is the bad guy here, unless yes you are talking about Russia and Gazprom. He is preventing Ukraine from taking it's own path towards the EU.
    You've got a point, but Putin's job is not to make it easier for Ukraine to join the EU. His job is to do what's best for Russia, and preserving the trade relationship with Ukraine would certainly be good for Russia.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.

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    Re: In military rout, Russia seizes 51 Ukrainian ships in Crimea

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Actually he wasn't. In one of History's perennial lessons on the importance of generalship, sound strategy, and willingness to exert one's self to force a conclusion, the German Wehrmacht was actually militarily inferior to the forces of France and Britain at the time.



    Quantity tends to have a quality all it's own. For (another) example, the Sherman tanks were inferior in WWII once we invaded Africa and Europe to their German counterparts - but we had lots of them. Russians used the mass-over-quality approach in their war with Germany as well, and 80% of German casualties happened on the Eastern Front because of it. I don't know if you can accurately compare Russians to Iraqi's as far as skill of employment is concerned.



    Interesting. You do not consider the Ukraine or the Baltic States to be part of Europe?



    True enough; and in his ability to use petro-power and threats to shove eastern Europe around. I would add "Egypt" to that list - when General Sisi decided that "the people" desired him to step down in order to "run" (he will certainly win overwhelmingly) for President, he went to get Putin's blessing, not ours.
    You make fair points. I do think that technology makes a bigger difference than it did 70 years ago.

    It was my understanding that Germany went on a full tilt effort to build their military before they moved,perhaps I am wrong. Lucky he drove out his Jewish scientists!

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