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Thread: Ukraine far-right leader Muzychko dies 'in police raid'

  1. #21
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    Re: Ukraine far-right leader Muzychko dies 'in police raid'

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    Are you saying there are situations where the two sides can afford a civil war or where one or both sides want a civil war? I would be hard-pressed to think of any time when that would be the case.
    I don't think Russia or Ukraine can afford or want a civil war.

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    Re: Ukraine far-right leader Muzychko dies 'in police raid'

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Some people are desperate to put everything into a partisan loyalty matter. That way they don't have to think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    So the far left is murdering people and calling them 'far right' for justification for their actions. And you buy into that?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Ukraine far-right leader Muzychko dies 'in police raid'

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Yes it does. I"ll use my esp to learn the thoughts of this Ukrainian zealot:

    "The ZOG UN troopers have found me. Darn their black helicopters and their microchip inplants. No FEMA camp for me, I"ll shoot my way out..." and....

    "Of course the fact that I beat up some of my rivals and/or have been dealing in stolen cars for 12 month has no connection with why they want to arrest me"
    You just can't make this stuff up.


    Shoot out in Ukraine...

    "....Ukraine's Deputy Interior Minister Vladimir Yevdokimov said Muzychko died after opening fire at police and Sokol special forces, who had raided a cafe to arrest him and fellow ultra-nationalists. The authorities described Muzychko as a criminal gang leader.

    During the raid, Muzychko fired at police as he was trying to flee, wounding one of them. Police then returned fire and captured him and three others in his "criminal gang", Mr Yevdokimov said.

    "He was still alive as they were arresting him - but then the paramedics, called to the scene, found that he had died," Mr Yevdokimov said. The three arrested gang members have been taken to Kiev for questioning.....

    BBC News - Ukraine far-right leader Muzychko dies 'in police raid'

    Shoot out in the US....

    Police investigating ex-militia leader after shootout with Montana police This Just In - CNN.com Blogs

    Military Terror Plot: Murder Case Uncovers Terror Plot By 'Militia' Within U.S. Military | loonwatch.com

    Michigan Militia member killed in police standoff

    Sheriff Joe Arpaio Warns Armed Militias: Beware Or Be Shot

    I-Team: Feds Concerned About Growth Of Militias CBS Miami

    Gilberton Pa. Police Chief has Private Militia, Kills Dog and Screams Profanities (Video)
    Last edited by Moot; 03-27-14 at 12:30 AM.

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    Re: Ukraine far-right leader Muzychko dies 'in police raid'

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Amazing. "Nationalism" about your own country is evil?
    Yup.

    Ultranationalism

    Ultranationalism is a zealous nationalism that expresses extremist support for one's nationalist ideals. It is often characterized by authoritarianism, efforts toward reduction or stoppage of immigration, expulsion and or oppression of non-native populations within the nation or its territories, demagoguery of leadership, emotionalism, fomenting talk of presumed, real, or imagined enemies, predicating the existence of threats to the survival of the native, dominant or otherwise idealized national ethnicity or population group, instigation or extremist reaction to crack-down policies in law enforcement, efforts to limit international trade through tariffs, tight control over businesses and production, militarism, populism and propaganda. Prevalent ultranationalism typically leads to or is the result of conflict within a state, and or between states, and is identified as a condition of pre-war in national politics.[citation needed] In its extremist forms ultranationalism is characterized as a call to war against enemies of the nation/state, secession or, in the case of ethnocentrist ultranationalism, genocide.[55]

    Fascism is a form of palingenetic ultranationalism[56] that promotes "class collaboration" (as opposed to class struggle), a totalitarian state, and irredentism or expansionism to unify and allow the growth of a nation. Fascists sometimes promote ethnic or cultural nationalism. Fascism stresses the subservience of the individual to the state, and the need for absolute and unquestioned loyalty to a strong ruler.[57]

    Nationalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Do you think ALL Ukrainians who want their own country should be executed or imprisoned, or only pro-West Ukrainean nationalists?
    Nope.

    Don't you think that people who are pro-government in USA also should be imprisoned or shot for being "nationalists?"
    Only if they commit violence.

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    Re: Ukraine far-right leader Muzychko dies 'in police raid'

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    I don't think Russia or Ukraine can afford or want a civil war.
    What I am saying is that it does not really matter. Not wanting or being able to afford for something to happen does not magically keep it from happening. It is about what all sides are willing to do to avoid a civil war.
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
    - Khalil Gibran

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    Re: Ukraine far-right leader Muzychko dies 'in police raid'

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Yup.

    Ultranationalism

    Ultranationalism is a zealous nationalism that expresses extremist support for one's nationalist ideals. It is often characterized by authoritarianism, efforts toward reduction or stoppage of immigration, expulsion and or oppression of non-native populations within the nation or its territories, demagoguery of leadership, emotionalism, fomenting talk of presumed, real, or imagined enemies, predicating the existence of threats to the survival of the native, dominant or otherwise idealized national ethnicity or population group, instigation or extremist reaction to crack-down policies in law enforcement, efforts to limit international trade through tariffs, tight control over businesses and production, militarism, populism and propaganda. Prevalent ultranationalism typically leads to or is the result of conflict within a state, and or between states, and is identified as a condition of pre-war in national politics.[citation needed] In its extremist forms ultranationalism is characterized as a call to war against enemies of the nation/state, secession or, in the case of ethnocentrist ultranationalism, genocide.[55]

    Fascism is a form of palingenetic ultranationalism[56] that promotes "class collaboration" (as opposed to class struggle), a totalitarian state, and irredentism or expansionism to unify and allow the growth of a nation. Fascists sometimes promote ethnic or cultural nationalism. Fascism stresses the subservience of the individual to the state, and the need for absolute and unquestioned loyalty to a strong ruler.[57]

    Nationalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    .
    Then you mean Putin. He meets virtually all those definitions.

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    Re: Ukraine far-right leader Muzychko dies 'in police raid'

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    What I am saying is that it does not really matter. Not wanting or being able to afford for something to happen does not magically keep it from happening. It is about what all sides are willing to do to avoid a civil war.
    If neither side wants war then it goes without saying they would try to avoid it.

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    Re: Ukraine far-right leader Muzychko dies 'in police raid'

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Then you mean Putin. He meets virtually all those definitions.
    If I had meant Putin I would have said so.

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    Re: Ukraine far-right leader Muzychko dies 'in police raid'

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    If neither side wants war then it goes without saying they would try to avoid it.
    This type of delusional thinking is exactly what leads to wars. Again I ask, when does either side in a dispute want a civil war?
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
    - Khalil Gibran

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    Re: Ukraine far-right leader Muzychko dies 'in police raid'

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    This type of delusional thinking is exactly what leads to wars. Again I ask, when does either side in a dispute want a civil war?
    Well, there are other sides that seem to want war. The ultra-nationalists, for one.

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