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Thread: U.S., other powers kick Russia out of G8

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    Re: U.S., other powers kick Russia out of G8

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    It may be a mistake, but I judge most incidents through my own eyes. If I were intimidated, one of two things would happen. I'd go anyway, knowing they wouldn't see how I voted . . . or I wouldn't show up. In the last presidential election, there were thugs standing outside some of the voting places...they weren't asked to move along...they weren't prosecuted...nothing. Did they intimidate anyone from voting their own minds? I seriously doubt it.
    There were like three guys at one voting precinct and most people described them as friendly. For some reason Fox News never showed you the footage of them holding doors open for old ladies. Hardly comparable to thousands of armed Russian troops. They were called thugs because they were black. Ooh, and one guy was staring in a threatening manner! Gee, maybe that had something to do with the video camera you were pointing at him because he was black and scary looking and therefore an Obama thug.

    Now. The people who voted are far less important than the people who count them. So . . . Ha!
    And when you are counting votes with Russian military outside your numbers better reflect something they will like.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: U.S., other powers kick Russia out of G8

    In all fairness what decisions? I'm just curious and I have a difficult time believing they will impact Russia. In my earlier post I asked what difference does it make since we will still buy their oil, Euro their natural gas and jokingly their vodka. But I forgot to add they buy US debt too.


    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Major decisions will be made without Russia's input. Yeah, there's an effect.

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    Re: U.S., other powers kick Russia out of G8

    Quote Originally Posted by CalGun View Post
    heard this in the radio and it's been discussed much since Russia rolled in to Crimea. I oft wondered, in Hillary's famous line, what difference does it make? Western Europe will still buy natural gas from Russia. Others will still buy their oil. We will still buy their vodka (jk) and all will continue but Putin will save a few bucks by not traveling to a summit that does???? What???
    We also will use the Russians to get our Americans up and back from the international space station and keep using Russian rockets to launch our satellites because NASA's mission under Obama is no longer space but to tell the Muslim world how smart they are.

    I wonder what Obama's response would be if Russia refused to transport our astronauts back to Earth from the international space station ?

    When it comes to space, America under the Obama administration has become too dependent on Russia.

    Putin is playing chess while Obama keeps playing checkers.

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    Re: U.S., other powers kick Russia out of G8

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    There were like three guys at one voting precinct and most people described them as friendly. For some reason Fox News never showed you the footage of them holding doors open for old ladies. Hardly comparable to thousands of armed Russian troops. They were called thugs because they were black. Ooh, and one guy was staring in a threatening manner! Gee, maybe that had something to do with the video camera you were pointing at him because he was black and scary looking and therefore an Obama thug.


    And when you are counting votes with Russian military outside your numbers better reflect something they will like.
    I'd like to believe the voting was all uncorrupted.

    But the presence of Russian military forces means I have to question it.

    Just the presence.
    Education.

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    Re: U.S., other powers kick Russia out of G8

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Read more @: U.S., other powers kick Russia out of G8 - CNN.com

    Throwing up the deuces. See ya later Russia! [/FONT][/COLOR]
    ""International law prohibits the acquisition of part or all of another state's territory through coercion or force," the statement said. "To do so violates the principles upon which the international system is built.
    Why don't the other powers kick out the USA. We certainly coerced the Ukrainians to initiate a coup in Kiev and ergo we are as much to blame, or more so, than the Russians. We created the instability.

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    Re: U.S., other powers kick Russia out of G8

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I'm a believer in keeping one's friends close and one's enemies closer.

    If we (the United States) had ties to an area (which Russia does to the Ukraine) and they suddenly wanted to vote to be annexed, I think we'd support them in that endeavor. Personally, I think we were wrong right out of the box. We should have used diplomacy and asked Russia to use UN supervisors to oversee their election process. We believe in elections, right? We believe the will of the people ought to be respected, right? Well, then, what is so wrong with what they did? If it were us, we might have done the same thing. Let the people decide.
    Except that in this situation this is nothing more than Russia exploiting political instability in Ukraine and grabbing whatever they can, in this case Crimea. As far as I know there was a specific procedure the Ukrainian parliament needed to follow if a province wished to secede from the country; to say the least it was not followed. Even then the proper way to through the process is not with an occupying military literally surrounding the voting parliament, but in an open and transparent manner.

    Also, diplomacy would have done very little. Russia has shown little concern for any sort of transparency and would have vetoed any resolution that would have sent UN observers to oversee the whole process since it would have meant the vote would not have gone Russia's way, something they would not have chanced. Instead, they cracked down on all media into Crimea and used the threat of force to compel the Crimean parliament to vote for an illegal secession and annexation.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    But. Since I assume we fomented the over-throw of their government? We had bigger designs than Russia taking over parts of it...
    The protests were a response to President Yanucovych backing away from a deal that would have further integrated Ukraine with the rest of Europe and away from Russia. The United States may have had something to do with them, but I have no reason to believe the protests were anything more than a populist revolt against seeing their country sink further into a kleptocracy.

    The best thing the United States can do is continue, if not further increase, with sanctions. So far the Russian stock exchange has seen a large decline, as has the ruble, and their economic outlook was downgraded to show expectations of no growth for 2014. Pushing further sanctions may push them into recession, and then steps to aid both the Ukrainian government and military could further dissuade Russia from taking anything beyond Crimea.

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    Re: U.S., other powers kick Russia out of G8

    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceman_Spiff View Post
    Except that in this situation this is nothing more than Russia exploiting political instability in Ukraine and grabbing whatever they can, in this case Crimea. As far as I know there was a specific procedure the Ukrainian parliament needed to follow if a province wished to secede from the country; to say the least it was not followed. Even then the proper way to through the process is not with an occupying military literally surrounding the voting parliament, but in an open and transparent manner.

    Also, diplomacy would have done very little. Russia has shown little concern for any sort of transparency and would have vetoed any resolution that would have sent UN observers to oversee the whole process since it would have meant the vote would not have gone Russia's way, something they would not have chanced. Instead, they cracked down on all media into Crimea and used the threat of force to compel the Crimean parliament to vote for an illegal secession and annexation.

    The protests were a response to President Yanucovych backing away from a deal that would have further integrated Ukraine with the rest of Europe and away from Russia. The United States may have had something to do with them, but I have no reason to believe the protests were anything more than a populist revolt against seeing their country sink further into a kleptocracy.

    The best thing the United States can do is continue, if not further increase, with sanctions. So far the Russian stock exchange has seen a large decline, as has the ruble, and their economic outlook was downgraded to show expectations of no growth for 2014. Pushing further sanctions may push them into recession, and then steps to aid both the Ukrainian government and military could further dissuade Russia from taking anything beyond Crimea.
    You may be right, Spaceman. I'm sure not well informed on the problem. That's an absolute. But, dang! It never stops me from an opinion.

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    Re: U.S., other powers kick Russia out of G8

    Putin is laughing all the way to the bank. This isn't going to coerce him into backing down.

    He's already seen that all he has to do, is rattle his saber and the First World countries will back down.

    If these sanctions start to sting, he'll start a brew-ha-ha somewhere and to stop it, Obama and the rest of his posse will lift a few of the sanctions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: U.S., other powers kick Russia out of G8

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I'm a believer in keeping one's friends close and one's enemies closer.

    If we (the United States) had ties to an area (which Russia does to the Ukraine) and they suddenly wanted to vote to be annexed, I think we'd support them in that endeavor. Personally, I think we were wrong right out of the box. We should have used diplomacy and asked Russia to use UN supervisors to oversee their election process. We believe in elections, right? We believe the will of the people ought to be respected, right? Well, then, what is so wrong with what they did? If it were us, we might have done the same thing. Let the people decide.

    But. Since I assume we fomented the over-throw of their government? We had bigger designs than Russia taking over parts of it...
    International observers were kept out of Crimea by Russian troops and paramilitary.
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...b0b044c01b8277
    Last edited by EnigmaO01; 03-25-14 at 12:17 AM.

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    Re: U.S., other powers kick Russia out of G8

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    I still think that I'd fully support Crimea's joining Russia if I could be sure the voting was reasonably uncorrupted.

    But frankly Russian military forces hanging around the place while the vote was going on makes me highly skeptical.

    .
    And don't forget those that opposed the referendum boycotted the vote.

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