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Egypt sentences to death 529 supporters of Mohamed Morsi

Deuce said:
Oh well stealing government property that changes everything. Death to all who steal from the government!
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Yeah especially the weapons.....wonder how many were Automatics and Machine guns.
 
Deuce said:
I don't care what terrorists think. I'm an American and I believe in due process and fair trials for all accused.
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I understand.....but in retrospect. They don't care what we think either.
 
MMC said:
Yeah especially the weapons.....wonder how many were Automatics and Machine guns.
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So you agree then that citizens shouldn't have such weapons!
 
Talk about hardcore politics!!!
 
Deuce said:
So you agree then that citizens shouldn't have such weapons!
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No that's not what I agree to.....but that is What the Law of Egypt has been like, say.........................Forever.( forever being an exaggeration but nonetheless gets the point across.)
 
Deuce said:
It was a mass trial where 529 people were sentenced to death for the same murder. The defense was not allowed to present a case. Yes, they got it wrong. Picture 529 Christians in the United States given this sentence for the death of one police officer and then ask yourself the question again.
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Do you think the Nuremburg trials were fair?
 
The Arab Spring. Sounds so refreshing and cleansing. Obama applauded it and supported it.

All it's doing is turning Egypt, Libya, etc, into southern Afghanistan.
 
MMC said:
Yeah that's for sure.....our attorneys would have been filing paperwork from day one. Getting half of them bonded out. Those caught in the dead act would still make bond as long as they got the money. Our attorneys know how to use real democracy to get around the law. Bend it, break it, and use it against its ownself.

Good thing the Egyptian Military didn't just pick up everybody off the street. They went after the MB and those that aided them. The same ones they branded terrorists after the MB said they don't accept Morsi being removed from Office. Then continued on to incite Riots and attacks on whoever gets in the Mb's way.
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A couple of things

1. I think there was a problem with the way Morsi was removed from office
2. To my knowlege, no one has demonstrated that the MB as an organization, is advocating attacks on whoever opposes their agenda
3. I think that to go persecute everyone in an organization for the activities of a few members is a recipe to increase terrorism

Injustice is the breeding ground for terrorism. What the Egyptian government is doing is way too heavy handed. I find it amazing that Putin is labeled as Hitler by someone like HC, yet el-Sisi has done far worse and we say nothing. In fact we continue to send billions of dollars to Egypt.

One of our biggest problems is that we are way to inconsistent about how we apply standards, especially when it comes to human rights and democracy.
 
Erod said:
The Arab Spring. Sounds so refreshing and cleansing. Obama applauded it and supported it.

All it's doing is turning Egypt, Libya, etc, into southern Afghanistan.
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They should have figured out from the beginning that there was already an Irish Spring.....Nothing like the real thing. An Original! :mrgreen:

th
 
MildSteel said:
A couple of things

1. I think there was a problem with the way Morsi was removed from office
2. To my knowlege, no one has demonstrated that the MB as an organization, is advocating attacks on whoever opposes their agenda
3. I think that to go persecute everyone in an organization for the activities of a few members is a recipe to increase terrorism

Injustice is the breeding ground for terrorism. What the Egyptian government is doing is way too heavy handed. I find it amazing that Putin is labeled as Hitler by someone like HC, yet el-Sisi has done far worse and we say nothing. In fact we continue to send billions of dollars to Egypt.

One of our biggest problems is that we are way to inconsistent about how we apply standards, especially when it comes to human rights and democracy.
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Heya MS. :2wave: The MB is an Organization and furthermore all know who have been supporting them That would be Qatar. The Syrian MB helped get the Issus with Syria going. The MB has been is into several ME countries as well as even here in the US. We even have some threads here that info on them. Just check search and they should come up.

The Saud and other Sunni are all agreeing that the MB are terrorists. Here is a piece I had up. Although, I do think the children can be saved and the indoctrination removed.



Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain said Wednesday they have recalled their ambassadors from Qatar in the clearest move yet underscoring their apparent displeasure over Doha's support for the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood group in Egypt and elsewhere the region.

The three Gulf Arab states made the announcement in a joint statement on state media, saying Qatar had breached a regional security deal. They said the move was made to protect their security.

Qatar's massive financial and public support for Mubarak's successor, President Mohammed Morsi, who hails from the Brotherhood, stood at odds with UAE and Saudi policies — as did its condemnation of Morsi's ouster last July by the Egyptian military, following days of massive protests in Cairo against the Islamist president.

At home, both the UAE and Saudi Arabia have cracked down on Islamist groups with links to the Brotherhood, which they see as a threat to their ruling systems. They are both staunch supporters of Egypt's new military-backed government, which subsequently launched sweeping crackdowns on Morsi and his Brotherhood supporters.

The agreement called on all GCC members not to interfere, "whether directly or indirectly" in another member nation's internal affairs. It also stipulated that GCC countries would not support organizations or individuals that threaten the security and stability of Arabian Peninsula countries "either through direct security work or by attempting to influence politics.".....snip~

Saudi, UAE, Bahrain recall their envoys from Qatar

http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle-east/187807-saudi-uae-bahrain-recall-their-envoys-qatar.html

So says.....one of the Alleged Southern Kings.

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ludin said:
yea didn't have this issue under their old president. egypt was fairly stable so who was it that caused that mess over there? ol yea obama.
you have to realize that over in other countries you are guilty unless you prove yourself innocent.

when you have the number of rioters like they do over there you are not going to get fair trials. in fact it is the opposite of fair.
heck we can't even get fair trials in the US.

that is why when a movie star is busted for having crack or cocaine on them they get a slap on the wrist and rehab. the normal person goes to jail.
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Their old President is extremely old and in poor health, he's unable to get out of a hospital bed, if you thought sticking with an 85 year old man who couldn't walk is the a good long term plan you're thinking wrong. And if you think Obama caused the uprising that overthrew him you're even more wrong
 
apdst said:
Do you think the Nuremburg trials were fair?
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I'm not familiar with the details. Did they last longer than five minutes and did the accused have an attorney and an opportunity to present a defense?
 
Wiseone said:
Their old President is extremely old and in poor health, he's unable to get out of a hospital bed, if you thought sticking with an 85 year old man who couldn't walk is the a good long term plan you're thinking wrong. And if you think Obama caused the uprising that overthrew him you're even more wrong
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Obama Administration Urges Mubarak to Step Down - US News

not really. he put down an uprising mostly from the muslim brotherhood and obama calls for him to step down.
so yea obama is to blame for all the non-sense going on over there because obama has no clue.

just like he has no clue on how to deal with putin. putin is running all over obama and pretty much ignoring everything he has to say.
weak leadership yields no respect and obama has no respect.
 
ludin said:
Obama Administration Urges Mubarak to Step Down - US News

not really. he put down an uprising mostly from the muslim brotherhood and obama calls for him to step down.
so yea obama is to blame for all the non-sense going on over there because obama has no clue.

just like he has no clue on how to deal with putin. putin is running all over obama and pretty much ignoring everything he has to say.
weak leadership yields no respect and obama has no respect.
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Urges him to step down did not cause his overthrow, and this article is from after the riots that over threw him started.
 
Deuce said:
I'm not familiar with the details. Did they last longer than five minutes and did the accused have an attorney and an opportunity to present a defense?
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Nuremberg if you were not aware was the UN court that put all of the nazi high command on trial after WW2. It was where the term following orders is not a defense came into play a ton.

i would say that nuremburg was pretty much a just stand there and you are guilty type court. sure they had some kind of defense but it did them little good. i think almost all were found guilty of something, and most of them were either killed or put in prison for life.
 
MMC said:
Heya MS. :2wave: The MB is an Organization and furthermore all know who have been supporting them That would be Qatar. The Syrian MB helped get the Issus with Syria going. The MB has been is into several ME countries as well as even here in the US. We even have some threads here that info on them. Just check search and they should come up.

The Saud and other Sunni are all agreeing that the MB are terrorists. Here is a piece I had up. Although, I do think the children can be saved and the indoctrination removed.
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I think Saudi Arabia, like el-Sisi in Egypt, have political reasons for portraying the Muslim Brotherhood, as an organization as terrorists. That said, I don't doubt that there are members of the MB who are involved in terrorist activities. But again, I haven't seen anywhere, that the MB as an organization is advocating terrorist activity. In contrast to al-Qaeda which does so. From what I can gather the MB, as an organization is relatively moderate and has been working with countries like the US since the Eisenhower administration.

I also noted that your article said the Saudi Arabia has a problem with Al-Jazeera as well. So I think that's an indicator of the motivation of the terrorist label. It may not be so much for accuracy as it is for political purposes.
 
MildSteel said:
I think Saudi Arabia, like el-Sisi in Egypt, have political reasons for portraying the Muslim Brotherhood, as an organization as terrorists. That said, I don't doubt that there are members of the MB who are involved in terrorist activities. But again, I haven't seen anywhere, that the MB as an organization is advocating terrorist activity. In contrast to al-Qaeda which does so. From what I can gather the MB, as an organization is relatively moderate and has been working with countries like the US since the Eisenhower administration.

I also noted that your article said the Saudi Arabia has a problem with Al-Jazeera as well. So I think that's an indicator of the motivation of the terrorist label. It may not be so much for accuracy as it is for political purposes.
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Mornin MS. :2wave: Yeah, they say they are moderate and I have said repeatedly that both Republicans and Democrats and those we have dealing in the UN and ME are not up to the task and have been duped, and out played. Since the beginning the US thought they could do business with them. We were wrong.

I have mentioned about following the money with the MB and their Middle men. They might not be tied to AQ......but do they assist, aid, help out. I think we can find those ties that bind. If we actually put some time into it. But, You can bet your ass they do. As well as any Islamists that are about helping them gain their Agenda.

Moreso with Qatar who funds the MB wherever.....and their affiliations with Al Jazeera.
 
MMC said:
Mornin MS. :2wave: Yeah, they say they are moderate and I have said repeatedly that both Republicans and Democrats and those we have dealing in the UN and ME are not up to the task and have been duped, and out played. Since the beginning the US thought they could do business with them. We were wrong.

I have mentioned about following the money with the MB and their Middle men. They might not be tied to AQ......but do they assist, aid, help out. I think we can find those ties that bind. If we actually put some time into it. But, You can bet your ass they do. As well as any Islamists that are about helping them gain their Agenda.

Moreso with Qatar who funds the MB wherever.....and their affiliations with Al Jazeera.
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Hiya there MMC!

I agree with you that the US thought they could do business with the MB. I recalled being very surprised when I saw Morsi calling for Assad to step down. I was wondering why would he take such a position. Then, it came to my attention that the CIA was supporting the MB in Syria in it's efforts to topple Assad. I had also been wondering why the US was trying to get rid of Assad, when it didn't seem that there was a suitable replacement. Then it occurred to me, the likely explanation was that the US was backing MB through Morsi in Egypt, as well as the MB in Syria to replace Assad. So it made sense to me that Morsi would therefore call for Assad to step down. I don't know for a fact to be true, but that is my opinion.

Having said that, I don't believe that the problems that we have with terrorism are due to the MB advocating it, as opposed to al Qaeda. I think the problem is that we are fueling terrorism in our attempts to combat it. In fact, even Donald Rumsfeld himself admitted this could be the case. I don't think it's the MB advocating terrorism, at least through ideology like al Qaeda, that's the problem. I think it's just that there are Muslims, who happen to be a part of or associated with the MB, who perceive that Muslims are the victims on injustice on the part of the US and Israel, that's the difficulty. It's something like their are Christians on the far right in the US who are racists. That does not necessarily mean that the church they attend is advocating racism. Or at least I hope not! lol
 
MMC said:
The report I got was for multiple attacks.....it wasn't over the killing of one Police officer. It was for killing hundreds of people, and attacking the Police, also going after the Military. From looting to stealing government Property and Inciting riots. While I don't agree how they are not following judicial processes. Which that is all they really need to do.....this group is one of the major problems throughout the entire ME. Egypt is their main base and where their orders are passed out thru their Sunni Clerics. They get rid of the problem here.....then all their off shoots will begin to fail in the other ME Countries.....which will also put notice on any others. Anywhere else in the world. To run for cover. Is there reason to allow any of them to go back out into the world and then continue on pushing the sectarian divide and trying to use Democracy to take over other ME countries. Stirring up violence and lets not forget their treatment of women and others outside themselves.



Egypt sentences 529 Morsi supporters to death


The 545 defendants in the case were charged with murder, attempted murder and stealing government weapons in connection with an attack on a police station in August in the town of Matay in Minya province. One police officer was killed in the attack. The violence was part of rioting around the country sparked when security forces stormed two pro-Morsi sit-ins in Cairo, killing hundreds of people on Aug. 14.

A security official in the courtroom said the defendants and the lawyers disrupted the proceedings by chanting against the judge: "God is our only refuge!" He spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the press.

On Tuesday, another mass trial against Morsi's supporters opens in a Minya court with 683 suspects facing similar charges. The defendants in that case include Brotherhood leader Mohammed Badie, who also faces multiple other trials, and senior members of the group from Minya province.

Since then, Morsi's Brotherhood and other Islamist supporters have staged near-daily demonstrations that usually descend into violent street confrontations with security forces.

The military-backed government has arrested some 16,000 people in the ensuing crackdown, including most of the Brotherhood leadership.

At the same time, militant bombings, suicide attacks and other assaults — mostly by an al-Qaida-inspired group — have increased, targeting police and military forces in retaliation for the crackdown. The authorities have blamed the Brotherhood for the violence, branding it a terrorist organization and confiscating its assets. The group has denied any links to the attacks and has denounced the violence.....snip~

Egypt sentences 529 Morsi supporters to death | Deseret News
By Maggie Michael - Associated Press Published: Monday, March 24 2014 6:51 a.m. MDT
Updated: 23 minutes ago

They attacked other officers and they killed hundreds and attacked hundreds across the Country. They attacked Police depts. and Military Posts.

They have been designated as a Terrorist Group.
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What we actually know here is that at least some of these events took place, and that these acts were carried out by people who likely supported Morsi. However, what is missing and what makes this trial unfair and unjust is we don't know that these 529 people were involved or the extent that each was involved. For a death sentence or imprisonment or even a conviction I think it should be proven that that person did something wrong. Not that that person supported the same idea as some people who did something.
 
MildSteel said:
Hiya there MMC!

I agree with you that the US thought they could do business with the MB. I recalled being very surprised when I saw Morsi calling for Assad to step down. I was wondering why would he take such a position. Then, it came to my attention that the CIA was supporting the MB in Syria in it's efforts to topple Assad. I had also been wondering why the US was trying to get rid of Assad, when it didn't seem that there was a suitable replacement. Then it occurred to me, the likely explanation was that the US was backing MB through Morsi in Egypt, as well as the MB in Syria to replace Assad. So it made sense to me that Morsi would therefore call for Assad to step down. I don't know for a fact to be true, but that is my opinion.

Having said that, I don't believe that the problems that we have with terrorism are due to the MB advocating it, as opposed to al Qaeda. I think the problem is that we are fueling terrorism in our attempts to combat it. In fact, even Donald Rumsfeld himself admitted this could be the case. I don't think it's the MB advocating terrorism, at least through ideology like al Qaeda, that's the problem. I think it's just that there are Muslims, who happen to be a part of or associated with the MB, who perceive that Muslims are the victims on injustice on the part of the US and Israel, that's the difficulty. It's something like their are Christians on the far right in the US who are racists. That does not necessarily mean that the church they attend is advocating racism. Or at least I hope not! lol
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Yep, the MB set up the Demonstrations all at the beginning with Syria.....all those that Assad's father had ran off were back. Then the Saud and Qatar jumped in. That Sunni slant came into play with the sectarian divide. Naturally the French filed resolutions in the UN on Syria. We know the rest from then on. Here anytime ya want to check out some info on Syria. Also there are some good threads with info going back around 10-12 pages, from where things are now. Which would be in the ME Forum.



In the past, United States officials saw the Islamist groups’ abundant resources as the main draw for recruits, said Steven Heydemann, a senior adviser at the United States Institute of Peace, which works with the State Department.

“The strategy is based on the current assessment that popular appeal of these groups is transactional, not ideological, and that opportunities exist to peel people away by providing alternative support and resources,” he said.....snip~

The unified command includes many with ties to the Muslim Brotherhood and to Salafists, who follow a puritanical interpretation of Islam. It excludes the most senior officers who have defected from Assad’s military, according to Reuters.....snip~

Syrian Free Army names Salim Idris new chief of staff

http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle-east/171776-honor-syrian-rebels-w-90-a-10.html
 
I'm certainly not a Muslim Brotherhood supporter, and during Egypt's Arab Spring I found myself muttering "be careful what you wish for", but clearly the Egyptian military... which now runs the entire country... has decided that the best way to eliminate the "loyal opposition" is to simply execute them en mass.

Between Morsi getting elected and immediately suspending the constitution to unilaterally give himself god-like powers, followed by the military throwing his ass in prison and his followers rioting, resulting in hundreds upon hundreds of those rioting followers being sentenced to death, "Democracy, Egyptian-Style" isn't looking like a particularly great option at the moment.
 
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