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Thread: Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves http://www.latim

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    Re: Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves http://www.l

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Perhaps I don't understand the process as well as you do, but don't they have to store the hydrogen first, before they synthesize it?
    From my understanding, the hydrogen only exists for moments during the process.
    The Navy's unit fit on a skid 3' X 5' X 5'.
    Storing green electricity as natural gas - Press Release May 5 2010
    The first articles about this process, were talking about putting units outside homes,
    and net metering natural gas meters in Germany.

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    Re: Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves http://www.l

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishstyx View Post
    What they don't clean up, biodegrades just like any other natural product. Its actually more excelerated in the Gulf of Mexico due to the large quantity of natural seeps.
    How long does it take to biodegrade? Speaking of, since it seems like you know something about it, what's the deal with the biodegradation of plastics? Is it different from the biodegradation of oil, and if so why?

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    Re: Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves http://www.l

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    From my understanding, the hydrogen only exists for moments during the process.
    The Navy's unit fit on a skid 3' X 5' X 5'.
    Storing green electricity as natural gas - Press Release May 5 2010
    The first articles about this process, were talking about putting units outside homes,
    and net metering natural gas meters in Germany.
    Ok. My bad then. Thanks!

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    Re: Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves http://www.l

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I understand it's being created. But the point was that you need a source energy to create it. In other words you need a source for the electrolysis to separate the hydrogen from the water. Perhaps I misunderstood, but I thought you were putting forward the notion of using natural gas as the source.

    If I have something wrong here, please correct me.
    I am talking about using excess energy from solar and wind to create man made hydrocarbons,
    as a method of storing that energy for later use.
    This method of storage would also allow the accumulation of low density energy,
    in a high density form. (you cannot really run a jet on solar panels)

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    Re: Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves http://www.l

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    I am talking about using excess energy from solar and wind to create man made hydrocarbons,
    as a method of storing that energy for later use.
    This method of storage would also allow the accumulation of low density energy,
    in a high density form. (you cannot really run a jet on solar panels)
    Ok. I understand.

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    Re: Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves http://www.l

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Ain't nothing wrong with a little hard work. Hard work is good for a man. Keeps you fit and strong. Just think instead of people having to spend all that time working out, they could simply plow the fields and stay as fit as a fiddle.
    I tell you what. Go back in time to those hard working men and give them the choice of walking behind a plow or sitting on a tractor and see what they think.

    Oh, and if it wasn't for fighting over oil, we would be fighting over something else.

    Lastly, you mentioned steam as a possible replacement for oil, it's difficult to lubricate things with steam.

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    Re: Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves http://www.l

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    How long does it take to biodegrade? Speaking of, since it seems like you know something about it, what's the deal with the biodegradation of plastics? Is it different from the biodegradation of oil, and if so why?
    Biodegredation time varies based on location, weather, and product. The Gulf is actually one of the world's location where oil biodegrades rapidly. Its hot and there are lots of oil eating micro-organisms in the region.

    As far as plastics versus oil. Pretty simple really. This spill is marine fuel oil which is a heavy fuel oil. When crude is refined, its separates into the various products. LPG on top to asphalt and waxes on the bottom. Heavy fuel is near the bottom but its still just a portion of crude.

    Plastics are a next level processing beyond basic refining (which is mainly a heat operation similar to distilling). Plastics require polymization which is a chemical reaction. This additonal process takes natural raw materials even further away from their natural state, hence harder to biodegrade.

    Honestly, the biggest issue invovling this spill is the shutting down of the Houston channel for several days. You're talking millions of dollars of lost commerce revenue.

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    Re: Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves http://www.l

    Quote Originally Posted by rjay View Post
    September 29: The Tesoro Logistics LP pipeline spill was the biggest leak in North Dakota since 1 million barrels of salt water brine, a byproduct of oil production, leaked from a well site in 2006.

    March 29: Exxon Mobil's Mayflower pipeline ruptured in a suburban neighborhood in Arkansas, forcing residents from homes. It spilled some 5,000 to 7,000 barrels of heavy crude from Canada.

    June 2012: Enbridge Inc shut its 345,000 barrels per day Athabasca pipeline after 1,400 barrels of oil spilled in Northeast Alberta. The line was quickly restarted after the company bypassed a pump station.

    July, 2011: Exxon Mobil's Silvertip pipeline leaked 1,500 barrels of crude into the Yellowstone River after heavy flooding in the region.

    July 25, 2010: Enbridge Inc's 41-year-old 6B pipeline ruptured in Michigan, leaking 19,500 barrels of crude, of which about 8,500 spilled into the Kalamazoo River. The accident on the pipeline owned by the Calgary-based company was the largest onland oil spill in U.S. history and environmentalists complained it left lasting damage to the river. Regulators kept the line shut for more than eight weeks. The accident was one of three outages that summer for Enbridge, raising questions about the safety of pumping Canadian crude through the United States.

    -----------------------------------

    It takes a lot of digging and trucking away, to clean up a land spill. There are ground water concerns, not to mention swamps, rivers creeks, farmland and forests.

    I don't know that inland spills are easier to clean than spills in the ocean. It would depend, I would think, on where the spill happens and how easy it is to access it with the proper equipment.

    The bottom line is that there is no safe way to transport oil, but transport it we must. Overall, pipeline may be the safest, I will leave that one to experts.

    One thing for sure, regardless of how the product is moved from the fields, to the refinerys and onward, the methods must be regulated. The safer oil and its by-products are being handled the better for us all.
    Thank you for the research.

    All those added together do not add to 1/10th of just the Exxon disaster. We use oil. The question is what the safest way to transport it and not either there is perfection or all gasoline and diesel stations are closed.

    The advantage of a land spill is that it stays where it is and can be removed. The massive offshore disaster in the Gulf of Mexico is a mass of enormous what is essentially huge soft tar flows moving about the bottom that can not be removed in any way nor does it stay in the same locations. Rather, the enormous patches are massive kill-all fields moving about the Gulf.

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    Re: Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves http://www.l

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Rather, the enormous patches are massive kill-all fields moving about the Gulf.
    The main reason they're "kill-all" is that the microorganisms feeding on the oil create an anaerobic environment. Fortunately, its temperary cause when the oil is gone, they stop using up all the O2.

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    Re: Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves http://www.l

    The fact is, there is no choice between pipelines and shipping. The pipelines are often being used to get the product to a place it can be shipped from. There are exceptions of course, but for the most part the choice is between pipelines and rail.

    Which of these is safer? That too is a big question mark.

    The reality is we live in a world that runs on oil. Those who have it are going to find a way to get it to those who want it. All we can really do is try to make whatever method is chosen as safe as possible. There are going to be environmental disasters. That is just a fact of life. The best we can hope for is to keep these disasters to a minimum.
    Time flies like an arrow; fruitflies like a banana. - Groucho

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