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Thread: Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves http://www.latim

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    Re: Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves http://www.l

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Another oil spill. Although modern human society has benefited from the convenience of oil and it's derivative products, it is causing significant environmental damage. However, the powerful influence of the oil industry insures that we will be dependent on oil for years to come.

    Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves - latimes.com
    What makes this spill significant is that the oil has the consistency of STP. If nobody knows what I'm talking about, it's a more slippery sticky oil than that of lumpy crude oil. It'll be more difficult to clean up. I like those words, clean up. We know they'll never get all of it up, just like any oil spill in water.

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    Re: Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves http://www.l

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    That's the problem. Hydrogen could be viewed as energy storage, but not as an energy source. The source would have to be something else, and that something else could be used directly as an energy source.
    If the something else is wind or photovoltaic, and you need it within milliseconds of it's conversion, yes,
    If you need it later, next day,month, year, you need to store that energy.
    Batteries are not suitable for the long term task.
    If we store the energy as natural gas, it could stay that way for centuries.

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    Re: Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves http://www.l

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    What makes this spill significant is that the oil has the consistency of STP. If nobody knows what I'm talking about, it's a more slippery sticky oil than that of lumpy crude oil. It'll be more difficult to clean up. I like those words, clean up. We know they'll never get all of it up, just like any oil spill in water.
    I agree with what you say about that "clean up" stuff. As I have said before, I remember going to Pensacola after they said they had "cleaned up" the BP spill. You could still see black stuff on the beach. Very sad.

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    Re: Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves http://www.l

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    If the something else is wind or photovoltaic, and you need it within milliseconds of it's conversion, yes,
    If you need it later, next day,month, year, you need to store that energy.
    Batteries are not suitable for the long term task.
    If we store the energy as natural gas, it could stay that way for centuries.
    Yeah, but natural gas is a hydrocarbon. So you are back to dependence on hydrocarbons which are finite and therefore not sustainable in the long run.

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    Re: Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves http://www.l

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I agree with what you say about that "clean up" stuff. As I have said before, I remember going to Pensacola after they said they had "cleaned up" the BP spill. You could still see black stuff on the beach. Very sad.
    I've never seen oil in water disappear or go away either.

    What makes this especially bad is that the spill is located in a migratory bird area. So sad.

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    Re: Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves http://www.l

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    What makes this spill significant is that the oil has the consistency of STP. If nobody knows what I'm talking about, it's a more slippery sticky oil than that of lumpy crude oil. It'll be more difficult to clean up. I like those words, clean up. We know they'll never get all of it up, just like any oil spill in water.
    What they don't clean up, biodegrades just like any other natural product. Its actually more excelerated in the Gulf of Mexico due to the large quantity of natural seeps.

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    Re: Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves http://www.l

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    As someone else pointed out, why not use the energy that used to make the hydrogen to directly power the ship? The other thing is that how will they store it? Hydrogen takes a lot of room. The next thing is that not only is a lot of energy used to produce the hydrogen, there is still a lot of energy needed to synthesize it into hydrocarbons. It's very difficult for me to see at this point how this process can be made efficient.
    No one is talking about storing hydrogen, The hydrogen is just a process to create hydrocarbon fuels.
    The articles said the conversion efficiencies are about 60%.
    The alternate energies available, sun, wind, tides, ect, tend to be low density, or time sensitive.
    The energy is there, just not when and where you need it.
    If we can store and accumulate this low density energy into a storage medium we are already
    equipped to handle, we will be way ahead of any other alternative energy system.

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    Re: Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves http://www.l

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Yeah, but natural gas is a hydrocarbon. So you are back to dependence on hydrocarbons which are finite and therefore not sustainable in the long run.
    You are not getting it, We are creating the natural gas(mostly methane)
    from water, atmospheric CO2, and energy.
    It is only limited by our ability to produce the energy.
    look at it this way, a gallon of gasoline contains about 33 kwh of energy,
    the conversion efficiency of this process is said to be 60%, so it would take
    about 55 kwh of electricity to make a gallon of gasoline.
    Lets assume for the sake of discussion someone installs the following system.
    SolarEdge Solar Power System - 30 SolarWorld Solar Panels
    They say it produces 1060 kwh per month.
    Let's say the homeowner uses 500 kwh per month, putting 560 kwh into the grid.
    That 560 kwh could produce 10 gallons of gasoline, or some number of cubic feet of natural gas.
    Up North, it may be that the extra power makes natural gas in the summer, for winter heating.
    In the mid west, the extra might make diesel for tractors.
    Homes around airports, might sell their extra energy to make jet fuel.
    This may not be a perfect energy storage solution, but is better than any thing else
    out there right now.

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    Re: Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves http://www.l

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    No one is talking about storing hydrogen, The hydrogen is just a process to create hydrocarbon fuels.
    The articles said the conversion efficiencies are about 60%.
    The alternate energies available, sun, wind, tides, ect, tend to be low density, or time sensitive.
    The energy is there, just not when and where you need it.
    If we can store and accumulate this low density energy into a storage medium we are already
    equipped to handle, we will be way ahead of any other alternative energy system.
    Perhaps I don't understand the process as well as you do, but don't they have to store the hydrogen first, before they synthesize it?

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    Re: Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves http://www.l

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    You are not getting it, We are creating the natural gas(mostly methane)
    from water, atmospheric CO2, and energy.
    It is only limited by our ability to produce the energy.
    look at it this way, a gallon of gasoline contains about 33 kwh of energy,
    the conversion efficiency of this process is said to be 60%, so it would take
    about 55 kwh of electricity to make a gallon of gasoline.
    Lets assume for the sake of discussion someone installs the following system.
    SolarEdge Solar Power System - 30 SolarWorld Solar Panels
    They say it produces 1060 kwh per month.
    Let's say the homeowner uses 500 kwh per month, putting 560 kwh into the grid.
    That 560 kwh could produce 10 gallons of gasoline, or some number of cubic feet of natural gas.
    Up North, it may be that the extra power makes natural gas in the summer, for winter heating.
    In the mid west, the extra might make diesel for tractors.
    Homes around airports, might sell their extra energy to make jet fuel.
    This may not be a perfect energy storage solution, but is better than any thing else
    out there right now.
    I understand it's being created. But the point was that you need a source energy to create it. In other words you need a source for the electrolysis to separate the hydrogen from the water. Perhaps I misunderstood, but I thought you were putting forward the notion of using natural gas as the source.

    If I have something wrong here, please correct me.

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