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Thread: Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves http://www.latim

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    Re: Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves http://www.l

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Saying that modern human society has benefited from the convenience of oil is a lot like saying it has benefited from the industrial revolution. Without oil, there would be no modern human society. We'd still be plowing with mules and riding in horse drawn carriages.

    Now, is there a substitute for oil? Not yet, no. Someday, let's hope, as the world's supply is finite, and no one wants to go back to plowing with horses and riding in carriages.

    Oh, and there were lots of "spills" from those horses as well.
    There is a substitute for hydrocarbon fuels.
    Fueling the Fleet, Navy Looks to the Seas - U.S. Naval Research Laboratory
    Audi opens 6 MW power-to-gas facility: pv-magazine
    It does take energy, but could be a viable way to store alternative power.
    organic oil could be saved for other uses.

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    Re: Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves http://www.l

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    There have been many major tanker and barge oil spills. Name a major oil pipeline rupture? It is also significantly easier to clean up a oil spill on land than in water.
    What about this one

    2013 Mayflower oil spill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The 2013 Mayflower oil spill occurred on March 29, 2013, when an ExxonMobil pipeline carrying Canadian Wabasca heavy crude from the Athabasca oil sands ruptured in Mayflower, Arkansas, about 25 miles northwest of Little Rock. Approximately 12,000 barrels (1,900 m3) of oil mixed with water had been recovered by March 31. Twenty-two homes were evacuated. The United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) classified the leak as a major spill. A reported 5,000−7,000 barrels of crude were spilled.
    A spill is a spill. I haven't been to Pensacola in a couple of years, but last time I was there, you could still see black stuff on the beach, even after they said they had cleaned up.

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    Re: Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves http://www.l

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    There is a substitute for hydrocarbon fuels.
    Fueling the Fleet, Navy Looks to the Seas - U.S. Naval Research Laboratory
    Audi opens 6 MW power-to-gas facility: pv-magazine
    It does take energy, but could be a viable way to store alternative power.
    organic oil could be saved for other uses.
    That's interesting. However, my understanding is that the current methods for generating hydrogen require more energy to produce the hydrogen than the energy that the hydrogen can generate. If you could shed some light on this, I would appreciate it. I need some time to digest this.

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    Re: Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves http://www.l

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    That's interesting. However, my understanding is that the current methods for generating hydrogen require more energy to produce the hydrogen than the energy that the hydrogen can generate. If you could shed some light on this, I would appreciate it. I need some time to digest this.
    This is true, you still need the energy input.
    When you look at it from an energy storage perspective, All of the energy not stored is lost.
    Storing 60% of something, is better than losing 100%.
    It takes more energy to charge a battery, than you can possible get out, but they are still useful.
    Storing energy as hydrocarbons, is just a different sort of battery, one that we already have a
    vast infrastructure in place to handle.

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    Re: Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves http://www.l

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    This is true, you still need the energy input.
    When you look at it from an energy storage perspective, All of the energy not stored is lost.
    Storing 60% of something, is better than losing 100%.
    It takes more energy to charge a battery, than you can possible get out, but they are still useful.
    Storing energy as hydrocarbons, is just a different sort of battery, one that we already have a
    vast infrastructure in place to handle.
    That's the problem. Hydrogen could be viewed as energy storage, but not as an energy source. The source would have to be something else, and that something else could be used directly as an energy source.
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    Re: Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves http://www.l

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    There have been many major tanker and barge oil spills. Name a major oil pipeline rupture? It is also significantly easier to clean up a oil spill on land than in water.


    September 29: The Tesoro Logistics LP pipeline spill was the biggest leak in North Dakota since 1 million barrels of salt water brine, a byproduct of oil production, leaked from a well site in 2006.

    March 29: Exxon Mobil's Mayflower pipeline ruptured in a suburban neighborhood in Arkansas, forcing residents from homes. It spilled some 5,000 to 7,000 barrels of heavy crude from Canada.

    June 2012: Enbridge Inc shut its 345,000 barrels per day Athabasca pipeline after 1,400 barrels of oil spilled in Northeast Alberta. The line was quickly restarted after the company bypassed a pump station.

    July, 2011: Exxon Mobil's Silvertip pipeline leaked 1,500 barrels of crude into the Yellowstone River after heavy flooding in the region.

    July 25, 2010: Enbridge Inc's 41-year-old 6B pipeline ruptured in Michigan, leaking 19,500 barrels of crude, of which about 8,500 spilled into the Kalamazoo River. The accident on the pipeline owned by the Calgary-based company was the largest onland oil spill in U.S. history and environmentalists complained it left lasting damage to the river. Regulators kept the line shut for more than eight weeks. The accident was one of three outages that summer for Enbridge, raising questions about the safety of pumping Canadian crude through the United States.

    -----------------------------------

    It takes a lot of digging and trucking away, to clean up a land spill. There are ground water concerns, not to mention swamps, rivers creeks, farmland and forests.

    I don't know that inland spills are easier to clean than spills in the ocean. It would depend, I would think, on where the spill happens and how easy it is to access it with the proper equipment.

    The bottom line is that there is no safe way to transport oil, but transport it we must. Overall, pipeline may be the safest, I will leave that one to experts.

    One thing for sure, regardless of how the product is moved from the fields, to the refinerys and onward, the methods must be regulated. The safer oil and its by-products are being handled the better for us all.
    Last edited by rjay; 03-24-14 at 06:57 PM.
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    Re: Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves http://www.l

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    That's the problem. Hydrogen could be viewed as energy storage, but not as an energy source. The source would have to be something else, and that something else could be used directly as an energy source.
    Indeed. In other words instead of using the energy to make the hydrogen, why not use it directly, e.g. to power an engine.

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    Re: Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves http://www.l

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    This is true, you still need the energy input.
    When you look at it from an energy storage perspective, All of the energy not stored is lost.
    Storing 60% of something, is better than losing 100%.
    It takes more energy to charge a battery, than you can possible get out, but they are still useful.
    Storing energy as hydrocarbons, is just a different sort of battery, one that we already have a
    vast infrastructure in place to handle.
    As someone else pointed out, why not use the energy that used to make the hydrogen to directly power the ship? The other thing is that how will they store it? Hydrogen takes a lot of room. The next thing is that not only is a lot of energy used to produce the hydrogen, there is still a lot of energy needed to synthesize it into hydrocarbons. It's very difficult for me to see at this point how this process can be made efficient.

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    Re: Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves http://www.l

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Another oil spill. Although modern human society has benefited from the convenience of oil and it's derivative products, it is causing significant environmental damage. However, the powerful influence of the oil industry insures that we will be dependent on oil for years to come.

    Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves - latimes.com
    Yea, this was one barge running into another barge and sinking it. Almost 200,000 gallons of oil is in the Ship Channel. Ship Channel is still closed, but the Galveston Ferry is finally running again, but you are not allowed to get out of your car while taking the ferry.
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    Re: Oil spill blocks Houston ship channel, threatens wildlife preserves http://www.l

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Yea, this was one barge running into another barge and sinking it. Almost 200,000 gallons of oil is in the Ship Channel. Ship Channel is still closed, but the Galveston Ferry is finally running again, but you are not allowed to get out of your car while taking the ferry.
    Yep. That's significant. My understanding is that the ship channel is still closed and there are about 80 vessels waiting to get through. If I'm wrong, correct me.

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