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Thread: Thousands in east Ukraine rally for secession referendum

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    Re: Thousands in east Ukraine rally for secession referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    What does Ukrainian law say about a majority imperative as far as referendums go? Because last time I checked, the polls in the Ukraine say that something like 60% don't want to split up the Ukraine or join the EU. (And those are polls pre and post Russian intervention.)

    As for American intervention... that's already happening. The whole reason why the interim government came to power and the protests disabled the country was because of CIA involvement. It's also why Russia is there now. Maybe if these two powers (but mostly the U.S. in this case) would stop playing puppeteer in silent continuation of the Cold War, the Ukraine could actually determine what is best or itself.

    A referendum is just yet another bait and switch to try and make this look like democratic action. The interim government is unlawful and not a representation of what the majority of the Ukraine wants. They were propped up with outside support. Western globalists and elites have a vested interest in continuing to expand the EU's regionality and the Ukraine is a worthy prize.

    I'd love to see Russia continuing to give the U.S. and EU the middle finger as it always does, because they can't touch it. Russia and China are the only two countries on this planet right now who are not under their thumb and they hate them for it.
    Heya NL .....It was all good until you got to the end there. As really.....those Russians and Chinese really don't want to get off into any Smack-talkin now. Bad enough they have a tough time with English. Let alone any Jive talkin. Just sayin.

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    Re: Thousands in east Ukraine rally for secession referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    This is not an American issue or a matter for America to lead on - this is a matter for the United Nations to deal with and lead on, if indeed it is still or ever was a body that protects the territorial integrity of member nations.

    For all anyone knows, the "free" elections in the Ukraine coming up in May may once again seat another pro-Russia alignment party in Ukraine government.
    Would that not be as funny as hell, though. What would the EU and the United States do then? Destabilize that democratically elected government as well. *winks*

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    Re: Thousands in east Ukraine rally for secession referendum

    RT has a nice run-down of the protests:

    About 5,000 protesters gathered in the city of Kharkov on Sunday to rally in favor of federalizing the country and holding people’s referendums in eastern Ukraine.


    The demonstrators also demanded to make Russian the official language of the Kharkov region. Russian is the most common first language in the eastern regions.

    . . .


    Meanwhile in the eastern Ukrainian city of Lugansk, preliminary results of an improvised referendum were announced to a several thousands-strong rally.


    According to the results, over 100,000 people voted in favor of joining Russia in a people’s referendum that was carried out in the form of a poll in Lugansk.

    . . .

    The city of Donetsk, also located in the Donbass region, also witnessed protests on Sunday, as more than 2,000 people took to the streets. They demanded that a referendum be held to decide the future of the region and handed out ballot papers.

    . . .


    Thousands also gathered for a rally in the Black Sea coastal city of Odessa on Sunday, protesting against the . . . government in Kiev. They carried Ukranian, Russian, and Crimean flags and chanted slogans such as “Ukraine and Russia are together” and “Odessa is against Nazis and tycoons,” as well as “Referendum!”


    The peaceful demonstrators urged authorities to release Anton Davidchenko, the arrested leader of People's Alternative, a council that coordinates the work of regional public organizations. They demanded an end to the persecution of activists accused of separatism.
    At the moment there is really no opposition to the protesters since the new ruling leadership has discouraged or even outright banned protests to prevent clashes between rival groups and the local security forces are too sympathetic to get in the way. That may change in the coming weeks should Kiev start sending down the newly-minted National Guard forces to keep public order.
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    Re: Thousands in east Ukraine rally for secession referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    At the moment there is really no opposition to the protesters since the new ruling leadership has discouraged or even outright banned protests to prevent clashes between rival groups and the local security forces are too sympathetic to get in the way. That may change in the coming weeks should Kiev start sending down the newly-minted National Guard forces to keep public order.
    If they do that, it would lend support to Putin's assertion that he was protecting Russian citizens in Crimea. He could say, this is the type of thing that happens to Russians in Ukraine when we don't intervene to protect our citizens.

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    Re: Thousands in east Ukraine rally for secession referendum

    IMO, unpleasant as the idea of such protests might be, Kiev needs to act with restraint. It can ill-afford to have a Maidan Square-type situation where protesters are injured or killed. If that happens, Russia would gain a pretext to intervene to protect the ethnic Russians and the use of force against protests, if they had remained peaceful, would undercut support for Ukraine. The development of pro-secession protests in eastern Ukraine remains one of the possible developments that could increase the risk of Ukraine's split and/or fragmentation and possible additional Russian intervention.

    It is imperative that the May election produce a government that is broadly seen as legitimate. The Right Sector's participation could hinder that prospect, particularly if that party and allied parties gain more than an insignificant share of seats.

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    Re: Thousands in east Ukraine rally for secession referendum

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    If they do that, it would lend support to Putin's assertion that he was protecting Russian citizens in Crimea. He could say, this is the type of thing that happens to Russians in Ukraine when we don't intervene to protect our citizens.
    Half the National Guard are going to be the existing Interior Troops, but the real issue is that a large number of new recruits are going to start deploying. Many local security forces in the east and south are sympathetic to the pro-Russian side and also generally averse to being seen as abusive. The new recruits will likely include disproportionate numbers of people from the Right Sector and other far-right paramilitary groups. Additionally, since their objective is recruit most of the Maidan self-defense units there is a likelihood that Svoboda supporters will have disproportionate representation since they were more often the ones acting as the defense. Given that a co-founder of Svoboda is in charge of the National Security and Defense Council with the head of Right Sector being his deputy responsible for internal affairs, the Prosecutor-General being a Svoboda member, and the Defense Minister being Svoboda members, it is quite probable that the head of the National Guard will be either a Svoboda member or someone associated with Right Sector. That many fascists and ultranationalists being at high-levels in the groups responsible for law and order within the country is not likely to play out well. Right now the reticence of local Interior Ministry forces has been a big reason for the lack of significant unrest, I think, as the local forces have often stepped aside when protesters took action against government buildings. The new National Guard recruits are not likely to be quite as accepting of such disruption and may go overboard since many will be quite green or undisciplined, not to mention being much more caught up in the revolutionary fervor.
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