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Thread: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Sorry, but you seem completely unaware of much of anything of which you speak.
    But you speak of nothing meaningful or relevant. It is obvious that the Constitution, legal principles and reality are far beyond your grasp.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    As I said regarding polls, except for election polls...well, you can go back and read it yourself...

    However, where are all those conservative pollsters you were so confidently bandying about, yet I note that you are not here citing...??
    Election "polls" are pointless when it comes to gauging what support a position does or does not have when elections only occur every couple of years, if that. As I've said before, using the results of a vote, especially from years ago, to attempt to claim a majority is stupid because it is a snapshot poll at only a single point in history of how a small group of people felt about that issue at that particular point in time. Since that vote, there has many any number of changes to the makeup and even mindset of the population. People died. People became of age to vote. People changed their minds. And on the issue of same sex marriage, all those things favor support for same sex marriage.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    What exactly did they teach you in that Civics class of yours?
    Clearly a lot more that you.
    You keep repeating the same ignorant tripe that judges make laws, yet are unable to point to a single law made by a judge.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Oh its been said plenty of times from our side...If the majority of the people don't want it as a part of our culture, we have no need to allow it. That is more than legal, it is the will of the people, we being the ultimate sovereigns here.

    Just when are you referencing that I brought up pedophiles... not that it isn't a "valid" argument? Just because its useful, applicable and effective... and you don't like it does not make an argument against it. But you can cry about it and tears might get you sympathy from some quarters.
    Wrong. You live in the US. The ultimate sovereign of the US is the US Constitution because it limits the government, and therefore the people, on in their will when it comes to law. You could claim that the supermajority of the people is the ultimate sovereign here when they choose to enact a change/Amendment to the Constitution. And the Constitution promises equal protection to all and that has been interpreted to mean the state has to show a law furthers a legitimate state interest when challenged, even if the law is the "will of the people".
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And the 14th allows for states to give justification as to why a law is in place if the state can show a legitimate state interest is furthered by having a certain law in place, as they can when it comes to 12 year olds being treated differently from adults. That is how the law actually works. I realize that it doesn't work with your personal bias against gays, but that is how it is. This is considered reasonable by a majority of people. Otherwise the 14th really would be a useless Amendment because a state could simply say "yes, we treat everyone the same in this way" or it would be an Amendment that overturned most of our laws because almost every law treats someone differently than someone else.
    You do not have the ability to just deem what the majority thinks on this, most have never ever even been aware of what this concept is that you are talking about, so we are assured that your statement is a complete and utter prevarication... you may think it true, but you are not the representative of our people.

    And yes, I think in many ways we need a revisiting of what the 14th means vs what is was supposed to mean and put in its proper limits, just like our most cherished freedom, that of free speech, has its own limits. The 14th was never intended to be strained to accommodate the silliness of which your personal bias may desire to push down the rest of our throats...

    We don't treat everyone the same way, a 17 year old the day before their 18th birthday is treated differently than someone who has achieved 18 years... there is no real difference in one day...or a week, perhaps a year, maybe even more depending on each individual... so using one's individual rights under the 14th, we should do away with such arbitrariness, correct?

    You see, it starts to get to the height of ridiculousness to think that society may not just establish certain lines and maintain them for the reasons they see fit.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Yup, always glad to make a public service announcement so that those who might feel this, or a similar penchant, are fully warned...that being for any and all sexual preferences, so do not get that hang dog look and make like it was just aimed just at you or your particular preference [ which I don't know and don't care about].

    If we open this whole marriage thing up, YOU KNOW [even if you don't know, many of us do ] there will be these type folks out there trying, maybe someday succeeding with the way your side is quickly taking down proper standards and lowering the bar ... that was the message, and since it seems you could not put this specific two and two together properly, it was good that you asked. So, yes, glad we got that all cleared up.
    People can bring their arguments to court, as it should be. That is what the courts are for, to determine if someone is really being treated unequally and why they are if it is true.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    But I guess if you find American history to be absurd...
    Even that is beyond his capacity.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Wrong. You live in the US. The ultimate sovereign of the US is the US Constitution because it limits the government, and therefore the people, on in their will when it comes to law. You could claim that the supermajority of the people is the ultimate sovereign here when they choose to enact a change/Amendment to the Constitution. And the Constitution promises equal protection to all and that has been interpreted to mean the state has to show a law furthers a legitimate state interest when challenged, even if the law is the "will of the people".
    My god, that is just an idiotic and subversive statement of voluntary ignorance and, ultimately, of subjugation. While the court in many instances, to maintain order, will no doubt and should be obeyed, when they overstep their limited commission, it is our right and duty to put them back in their place. See the Hamilton quote above. This is a part of the deal, breach of the deal may well mean lots of misery and unnecessary suffering.

    The 13th amendment, you might do well to remember, did away with slavery, madam. I certainly do not intend to be a slave, sounds like you are willing. Subservience, when one is the genuine master, is just plain dumb.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    You do not have the ability to just deem what the majority thinks on this, most have never ever even been aware of what this concept is that you are talking about, so we are assured that your statement is a complete and utter prevarication... you may think it true, but you are not the representative of our people.

    And yes, I think in many ways we need a revisiting of what the 14th means vs what is was supposed to mean and put in its proper limits, just like our most cherished freedom, that of free speech, has its own limits. The 14th was never intended to be strained to accommodate the silliness of which your personal bias may desire to push down the rest of our throats...

    We don't treat everyone the same way, a 17 year old the day before their 18th birthday is treated differently than someone who has achieved 18 years... there is no real difference in one day...or a week, perhaps a year, maybe even more depending on each individual... so using one's individual rights under the 14th, we should do away with such arbitrariness, correct?

    You see, it starts to get to the height of ridiculousness to think that society may not just establish certain lines and maintain them for the reasons they see fit.
    IF the majority did not approve of the way our courts do business when it comes to constitutional law, including judicial review and/or scrutiny in relation to the 14th Amendment, then they are free to change that through Amendment. Until that point, then the people either don't care enough or agree with how it is done.

    We don't treat everyone the same, and that is the point. In how you are trying to use the 14th, without states being able to justify treating 16 year olds different than 18 year olds, then they would have to be treated the same. Why aren't they? Why are states allowed to treat 17/15/16 year olds differently than 18 year olds? Please enlighten us all because it is obvious that they are allowed to do so.

    Your claim is that it is the will of the majority that allows this, but that is not true. It is because the will of the majority in this mattered is justified by furthering a legitimate state interest in establishing an "age of majority". The will of the majority would be invalid if it tried for treating different ages differently, such as saying that a 36 year old could not get married but anyone 18-35 and 37 and older could.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #990
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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    My god, that is just an idiotic and subversive statement of voluntary ignorance and, ultimately, of subjugation. While the court in many instances, to maintain order, will no doubt and should be obeyed, when they overstep their limited commission, it is our right and duty to put them back in their place. See the Hamilton quote above. This is a part of the deal, breach of the deal may well mean lots of misery and unnecessary suffering.

    The 13th amendment, you might do well to remember, did away with slavery, madam. I certainly do not intend to be a slave, sounds like you are willing. Subservience, when one is the genuine master, is just plain dumb.
    Oh, I didn't even mention the Courts up there, you did. I mentioned the Constitution and the job of the Courts is to ensure the Constitution is being followed and that rights are being preserved despite the will of the majority.

    And spare us the victim mentality. No one is trying to treat you like a slave.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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