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Thread: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

  1. #971
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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Well, we have to get your attention somehow, since logic doesn't really attract liberals and those so rabid for what they want they can see little else, yano?

    Nobody here, despite the alleged invalidity of our side's arguments, has been able to prove your side's point... kinda makes a thinking person wonder. How about you?

    Well nobody here has been able to prove to your satisfaction. It seems pretty obvious that no anonymous discussion on an internet message board is going to change your mind since you have shown that even when logic and facts have been presented you just deny.

    However those who support Marriage Equality have proven the validity of their arguments time and tijme again, the validity of the oppositions arguments have been rejected, time and time again.

    They've been rejected in State courts in:

    California**
    New Jersey
    Massachusetts
    Iowa
    Connecticut
    Vermont
    New Mexico

    They've been rejected in Federal courts in:

    California**
    Utah
    Oklahoma
    Kentucky
    Virginia
    Texas
    Ohio
    Michigan



    The arguments against SSCM are also shown to be beginning to be rejected by "We the people" as the last 4 votes in the issue during General Elections has shown (with Marriage Equality supporters winning all 4 votes) which validates the trend data shown by such organizations as Gallup and Pew. Out, as a society, attitude of today is not the same as it was just a decade ago when States were getting Civil Marriage and Civil Unions banned.



    ** Yes California is listed twice as the arguments were rejected by State courts and the California Supreme Court and by Federal District court and the Federal 9th Circuit Court.


    >>>>
    Last edited by WorldWatcher; 03-28-14 at 07:36 AM.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonely Eternity View Post
    Oh, you're right! You didn't equate homosexuality with pedophilia. You simply tried to insinuate that I might like little kids. Nice. Glad we got that cleared up.
    Yup, always glad to make a public service announcement so that those who might feel this, or a similar penchant, are fully warned...that being for any and all sexual preferences, so do not get that hang dog look and make like it was just aimed just at you or your particular preference [ which I don't know and don't care about].

    If we open this whole marriage thing up, YOU KNOW [even if you don't know, many of us do ] there will be these type folks out there trying, maybe someday succeeding with the way your side is quickly taking down proper standards and lowering the bar ... that was the message, and since it seems you could not put this specific two and two together properly, it was good that you asked. So, yes, glad we got that all cleared up.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Sharpton, Jr. :l
    A word to the unwise and terminally annoying, if I don't respond, take it personally ...and know you've been iggied.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Sorry, but that is just ridiculous. We are all denied things every day. That is NOT tyranny. How simplistic.

    I know the Constitution, and its concepts, far better than others, it seems apparent. Why don't you inform me of where in the Constitution that the minority rules. Why don't you explain to us, if this is so, why there are all sorts of examples of majority rules within the Constitution itself... say for example, the majorities needed for amendments, and...oh, but you are right because the President is elected by a minority of electoral college votes...oh wait, no, that would be the majority, too... dang, maybe you can help me find a place in the Constitution where the minority wins... but I think you merely will find they, we, have rights in place so they, we, cannot be silenced and may, through those rights, potentially rise to the point of being the majority... which rules.

    Your turn.
    Again, you have to have a reason and not just because you're the majority.

    And no, I don't think you do understand the Constitution. We're talking about laws and not elections. You seem confused.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    Well nobody here has been able to prove to your satisfaction. It seems pretty obvious that no anonymous discussion on an internet message board is going to change your mind since you have shown that even when logic and facts have been presented you just deny.

    However those who support Marriage Equality have proven the validity of their arguments time and tijme again, the validity of the oppositions arguments have been rejected, time and time again.

    They've been rejected in State courts in:

    California**
    New Jersey
    Massachusetts
    Iowa
    Connecticut
    Vermont
    New Mexico

    They've been rejected in Federal courts in:

    California**
    Utah
    Oklahoma
    Kentucky
    Virginia
    Texas
    Ohio
    Michigan



    The arguments against SSCM are also shown to be beginning to be rejected by "We the people" as the last 4 votes in the issue during General Elections has shown (with Marriage Equality supporters winning all 4 votes) which validates the trend data shown by such organizations as Gallup and Pew. Out, as a society, attitude of today is not the same as it was just a decade ago when States were getting Civil Marriage and Civil Unions banned.



    ** Yes California is listed twice as the arguments were rejected by State courts and the California Supreme Court and by Federal District court and the Federal 9th Circuit Court.


    >>>>
    Hmmm... don't know for sure, but I bet if you started listing the states that haven't done any of that, the list would look a heck of a lot longer, eh? Yes, you folks here, and in real life, have not yet been able to sufficiently convince the rest of us of your side's "logic and facts"... btw, was that supposed to be a joke? I think you flatter yourself if you think you and your side are in possession of those two.

    You think nine justices have the right to just turn an entire culture topsy-turvy without the consent of the people? Based on some methodology that perhaps worked in previous cases... but is not a one size fits all, all must be locked into this silly gambit styled deal. Just program it in and the court, like a computer spits out the ruling without any understanding of the culture, the people's will or any understanding of what havoc it may well wreak?

    If you do, I would consider that the ideology of anarchy.
    Last edited by Gaugingcatenate; 03-28-14 at 09:44 AM.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Sharpton, Jr. :l
    A word to the unwise and terminally annoying, if I don't respond, take it personally ...and know you've been iggied.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    And yet that is how it has been since 1967.

    Chief Justice Earl Warren's opinion for the unanimous court held that:

    "Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival.... To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law. The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discrimination. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, a person of another race resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the State."

    But I guess if you find American history to be absurd...
    Oh, I think many of us can find absurdities in American History, sure. You believe all our history is just clean, pristine, without fault do you? How do you account for Plessy being overturned by Brown then, eh? You think the court is always right [ how can you even think to reconcile that with PvB just mentioned], that SC justices are infallible, everything they say and do cannot be questioned on its logic and pragmatism?

    That is simply mindless, might as well be ants in a colony doing the bidding of some divine right queen, or in this case the court, right?

    But, as I indicated previously, to take this incongruity to its logical conclusion, if one is not married under these proclaimed civil rights, one is being discriminated against, correct? Being denied their basic civil rights... and when that is the provable case, such injury requires some sort of compensation, does it not?
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Sharpton, Jr. :l
    A word to the unwise and terminally annoying, if I don't respond, take it personally ...and know you've been iggied.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Everybody within US jurisdiction is Constitutionally protected under the 14th... so I would suppose same sex couples are protected under the 14th just about as much as two 12 year olds wanting to marry, especially if groups of 12 year olds and their advocates had been pushing this silliness as long as homosexuals have been pushing theirs.
    And the 14th allows for states to give justification as to why a law is in place if the state can show a legitimate state interest is furthered by having a certain law in place, as they can when it comes to 12 year olds being treated differently from adults. That is how the law actually works. I realize that it doesn't work with your personal bias against gays, but that is how it is. This is considered reasonable by a majority of people. Otherwise the 14th really would be a useless Amendment because a state could simply say "yes, we treat everyone the same in this way" or it would be an Amendment that overturned most of our laws because almost every law treats someone differently than someone else.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  7. #977
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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Again, you have to have a reason and not just because you're the majority.

    And no, I don't think you do understand the Constitution. We're talking about laws and not elections. You seem confused.
    In other words, you cannot verify what you claimed to be true in the Constitution, thus confirming my claim to be a bit more knowledgeable about the document than many, if not most, here, eh?

    and....OMG, we are talking about changing our entire culture, our long lasting and working primary institution of marriage... so we are talking elections, laws, the people's will, the whole gamut my friend. As stated previously, when selling the Constitution and the idea of federal supremacy in only certain, enumerated, areas, it was understood by the framers that the federal government may overstep... and this is what Hamilton had to say,

    "If the federal government should overpass the just bounds of its authority and make a tyrannical use of its powers, the people, whose creature it is, must appeal to the standard they have formed, and take such measures to redress the injury done to the Constitution as the exigency may suggest and prudence justify."

    That is showing a complete understanding, by Hamilton who was perhaps one of the strongest advocates of a strong central government, of just who is the real power behind the throne. WE, THE PEOPLE.

    Class over.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Sharpton, Jr. :l
    A word to the unwise and terminally annoying, if I don't respond, take it personally ...and know you've been iggied.

  8. #978
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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    So that would mean anybody that is not married could sue who, the Federal government, if they are not married? Would that not be an undeniable denial of one's civil rights?
    Just as in most rights, you don't get to sue if you choose not to exercise a right. Would a person who didn't vote be able to sue the federal government for them choosing not to vote? Would a person who is an atheist be able to sue the federal government for them choosing not to have a religion? Would someone who chooses not to own a gun be able to sue the federal government, or really even the state governments, for them choosing not to own a gun? A person doesn't have to exercise their rights to still be entitled to do so later when they may choose to do so.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    No. Yes we can, yes you did and you can thank me, not just because I say so but because it is so, no ... you were still way off wrong about preclusion, there is sufficient equality in marriage currently, I and sufficient others so far are not for opening up a right to those who do not merit it... yes.
    Keep telling yourself that, it may be delusion, but then again some people hate reality.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Quite a bit more than can be said of or for you, eh?
    If that is the best you can do you are scraping the bottom of the barrel...

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