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Thread: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Well thank you! But flattery will not let you off the hook....please try to stick to the subject and explain why the kids of gay couples do not deserve the same legal protections at those of straight unions? Just do it so it's not hypocritical, you dont have to base it on relgion (since you really cant):
    Kids of gay couples probably need a lot of protections, perhaps not the kind you are talking about. The kids, all kids, have the same protections. There is no constitutional right of any kid to have gay parents that I know of, is that what you are trying to say here?

    The right of gay folks to adopt has no constitutional protection, either...maybe you are talking about that? Hard to follow you, you don't make a lot of sense on this topic so far.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Einzige View Post
    Obviously we've hit on the solution to this problem: a Constitutional Amendment prohibiting gay marriage bans in the United States. Surely our Constitutional conservatives, having already ceded the moral ground and the public space, will have no problem adopting such a campaign as their own.
    Once again, are you making it up as you go...or is that what is the reality to you in your head... cause I don't see much evidence of much of anything you say being out here in the real world.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Kids of gay couples probably need a lot of protections, perhaps not the kind you are talking about. The kids, all kids, have the same protections. There is no constitutional right of any kid to have gay parents that I know of, is that what you are trying to say here?

    The right of gay folks to adopt has no constitutional protection, either...maybe you are talking about that? Hard to follow you, you don't make a lot of sense on this topic so far.
    Nope, they are not protected in the same way that the kids of straight couple marraiges are. THey are more vulnerable in custody battles, foster care services, and if there is divorce, they lose all legal rights to the other parent, such as family rights, the right to visit in a hospital, inheritance, etc...the list is quite long.

    Not talking about adoption but if a child IS adopted by a gay couple that isnt legally married, then that child is also vulnerable and loses even more of their protections, as they may be permanently separated from one of their parents, for example.

    Again...these unions and these kids arent going anywhere....denying them the same protections is cruel and actually damaging to society as we'll have to deal with their dysfunctional kids just like we do those from straight marriages that falter.
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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    You said they were Constitutionally protected... and they are not, pure and simple. Even if the SC rules in their favor, they are not Constitutionally protected, to repeal them would just require another court judgement going in the opposite direction... al la Plessy v Ferguson by Brown v Board.

    You were wrong. Flat out, like I said originally.
    They are, in accordance with constitutional law and precedence, which is completely valid.

    Until the SCOTUS reverses their rulings (which is highly unlikely given what that takes), saying that they are constitutionally protected stands.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Nope, they are not protected in the same way that the kids of straight couple marraiges are. THey are more vulnerable in custody battles, foster care services, and if there is divorce, they lose all legal rights to the other parent, such as family rights, the right to visit in a hospital, inheritance, etc...the list is quite long.

    Not talking about adoption but if a child IS adopted by a gay couple that isnt legally married, then that child is also vulnerable and loses even more of their protections, as they may be permanently separated from one of their parents, for example.

    Again...these unions and these kids arent going anywhere....denying them the same protections is cruel and actually damaging to society as we'll have to deal with their dysfunctional kids just like we do those from straight marriages that falter.
    More reason not to support SSM I suppose then, poor kids. Shouldn't have happened in the first place... I blame the "parents".
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    They are, in accordance with constitutional law and precedence, which is completely valid.

    Until the SCOTUS reverses their rulings (which is highly unlikely given what that takes), saying that they are constitutionally protected stands.
    No, they are court protected only. Constitutional protections would take an amendment to the Constitution to change... sorry, you are just wrong. Admitting it is hard I know...
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Marriage has been clearly spelled out as between a man and a woman in law. If you want to change the law fine but do it the constitutional way.




    1 U.S. Code 7 - Definition of “marriage” and “spouse”

    Current through Pub. L. 113-86, except 113-79. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)

    US Code
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    In determining the meaning of any Act of Congress, or of any ruling, regulation, or interpretation of the various administrative bureaus and agencies of the United States, the word “marriage” means only a legal union between one man and one woman as husband and wife, and the word “spouse” refers only to a person of the opposite sex who is a husband or a wife.
    UNITED STATES v. WINDSOR | LII / Legal Information Institute

    The power the Constitution grants it also restrains. And though Congress has great authority to design laws to fit its own conception of sound national policy, it cannot deny the liberty protected by the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment.[...] the principal purpose and the necessary effect of this law are to demean those persons who are in a lawful same-sex marriage. This requires the Court to hold, as it now does, that DOMA is unconstitutional as a deprivation of the liberty of the person protected by the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution. The liberty protected by the Fifth Amendment’s Due Process Clause contains within it the prohibition against denying to any person the equal protection of the laws. [...] While the Fifth Amendment itself withdraws from Government the power to degrade or demean in the way this law does, the equal protection guarantee of the Fourteenth Amendment makes that Fifth Amendment right all the more specific and all the better understood and preserved.
    This is the judicial reasoning used to require the federal government to recognize SSM in relation to federal benefits. USC 1, sec 7 is still on the books, but is a dead nail.

    This is the likely judicial reasoning that will be opined by the US Supreme Court when laws baning SSM are stricken from the American landscape.
    Last edited by 1750Texan; 03-27-14 at 03:43 PM.


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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    No, they are court protected only. Constitutional protections would take an amendment to the Constitution to change... sorry, you are just wrong. Admitting it is hard I know...
    Nope. Constitutionally protected under the EPC of the 14th Amendment. Otherwise, what exactly would the EPC protect because it doesn't specifically mention race at all.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Okay... and so? See, I know I am too wordy in most of my posts, but now, since you said the obtuse without doing the work of fleshing it out, we have lost the original point... and I am just too busy to go back and look right now...so...next...
    In other words you have nothing.

    It is not necessarily an absolute, but if we the people want it that way, we damn well can keep it that way.
    Don't look now but you can not.

    It is a proven method that has worked wonderfully for us for generation after generation...along with other attributes within the system, its helped take us to supremacy in world power, a good world power on the whole, and mightily impressive domestic economics...why fix something that isn't broken, as they say. That help you out any?
    I hardly needed help but clearly you do.

    You are just flat out wrong on preclusion.
    Because you say so?

    Well, because of the system we have, though not precluded, we do have less chance for tyranny here, agreed.
    Good, enough said then.

    Not allowing same sex marriage is in no way to be associated with a tyranny in any event.
    Not to you since it is you would would deny others their equality.

    And you are free, in your own way, to marry whomever you want, nobody will/can stop you if the other is able and willing to give consent... just don't expect state sanction and recognition is all.
    But it that recognition exactly that is at issue here and what you want to deny because you do not approve.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Screw your legalese crap... this is society we are talking about here, not your day at the courthouse chatting it up with attorneys and paralegals.
    Nice intellectual and intelligent rebuttal. Just what can be expected from you.

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