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Thread: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Huh, and here I thought you were basing your 'opinion' of homosexuality and SSM on yoru Christian beliefs. I guess I'll rethink that, since this obviously does not indicate very Christian thinking.







    I also missed any explanations of how their families are any different than those of straight couples. You know...the whole 'how is their lifestyle/culture different?' thing that has been unanswered.
    I cannot be bothered with folks I specifically inform that I am not a Christian, have no specific religious beliefs actually, and yet they keep trying to batter me with that...all the time professing they are a Christian...wow, what a mess must be going on up in there...

    So, it is apparent, whatever I might tell you would be surely and quickly lost in your bubbling-over effervescent spirit...
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    This is a very old argument. The definition of marriage has been changed before. Some states specified race, some numbers, some age....all change according to society and in some cases, the Constitution, as we know it was unConstitutional to prevent interracial marriage.
    Moreover, he's citing the united States Code, then turning around and claiming that gay marriage is somehow unconstitutional. But the Code is not the Constitution, and is legally subordinate to it - and thus subject to judicial review.
    I dip my forefinger in the watery blood of your impotent mad-redeemer (your Divine Democrat — your Hebrew Madman) and write over his thorn-torn brow, “The true prince of Evil — the king of the Slaves!”
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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    You act like a typical liberal. You disdain the people you profess to support.
    I don't support anybody. I have disdain for almost all humans.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Marriage has been clearly spelled out as between a man and a woman in law. If you want to change the law fine but do it the constitutional way.




    1 U.S. Code § 7 - Definition of “marriage” and “spouse”

    Current through Pub. L. 113-86, except 113-79. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)

    US Code
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    In determining the meaning of any Act of Congress, or of any ruling, regulation, or interpretation of the various administrative bureaus and agencies of the United States, the word “marriage” means only a legal union between one man and one woman as husband and wife, and the word “spouse” refers only to a person of the opposite sex who is a husband or a wife.
    And that definition of marriage and spouse violates the Constitution for there is no legitimate reason for the government (federal or state) to make such a policy/distinction. There is no legitimate interest furthered by that distinction when men and women have the same rights within marriage. Spouses are not treated differently within marriage based on their sex/gender, since that would be gender discrimination.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Then all judges working in constitutional challenges would be activist judges, including every SCOTUS Justice to ever serve.
    Wrong, you as a judge have a responsibility to set your personal beliefs aside and look at the constitution as a sacred document not to be tampered with from the bench. I have enjoyed our discussion as I sat here waiting for the snow to stop because I have things to do outside. It's not stopping and the day is growing short so off I go I guess.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Marriage has been clearly spelled out as between a man and a woman in law. If you want to change the law fine but do it the constitutional way.




    1 U.S. Code § 7 - Definition of “marriage” and “spouse”

    Current through Pub. L. 113-86, except 113-79. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)

    US Code
    Notes
    Updates

    prev | next
    In determining the meaning of any Act of Congress, or of any ruling, regulation, or interpretation of the various administrative bureaus and agencies of the United States, the word “marriage” means only a legal union between one man and one woman as husband and wife, and the word “spouse” refers only to a person of the opposite sex who is a husband or a wife.

    I'm sorry but that is not current law, that is DOMA Section 3 and it was ruled unconstitutional. And yes, a SCOTUS ruling is a constitutional way.



    >>>>

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Wrong, you as a judge have a responsibility to set your personal beliefs aside and look at the constitution as a sacred document not to be tampered with from the bench. I have enjoyed our discussion as I sat here waiting for the snow to stop because I have things to do outside. It's not stopping and the day is growing short so off I go I guess.
    And someone somewhere is always going to accuse any judge from ruling based on their personal beliefs, even if they aren't, just because that accuser's personal beliefs are different than the judge's. That is where my response came from. You are claiming the judges ruling against same sex marriage bans, ruling them unconstitutional, are activist judges only because their rulings do not agree with your beliefs, not because their rulings are faulty under constitutional law.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    I cannot be bothered with folks I specifically inform that I am not a Christian, have no specific religious beliefs actually, and yet they keep trying to batter me with that...all the time professing they are a Christian...wow, what a mess must be going on up in there...

    So, it is apparent, whatever I might tell you would be surely and quickly lost in your bubbling-over effervescent spirit...
    Well thank you! But flattery will not let you off the hook....please try to stick to the subject and explain why the kids of gay couples do not deserve the same legal protections at those of straight unions? Just do it so it's not hypocritical, you dont have to base it on relgion (since you really cant):


    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Finally? I have discussed previously what marriage is for and one of the main reasons is for protecting children that are, yes, created through the act of procreation that can only, besides in-vitro or cloning, be accomplished by opposite sex couplings. Marriage does not specifically require procreation, just the general likelihood of the ability to procreate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    No to your first question, In a free society I do not think it is possible, plausibly optimal but probably not possible...but if a SS couple have them one takes ones chances and gets what one gets in custody battles... one cannot complain and besides, no sympathy, not my/our problem.

    I would certainly not allow for SS adoption. Toleration is one thing, condoning, acceptance or promotion is simply out of the question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    And then are the children of gay couples less worthy of protection? They exist, thru natural reproduction, thru surrogacy, thru IV, thru adoption....do they not deserve the protection that marriage affords straight families?

    Because gay couples do desire families just as much as straight couples...and have them. Legalizing SSM wont change that...it will only provide more protections for families, kids. Gays arent going to stop having families.
    .....
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I never said that they were specifically written in the Constitution itself, but they are covered and they are part of constitutional law and precedence. You don't have to approve of the way our system works, but complaining and making stupid demands on the internet isn't going to change how they currently work.
    You said they were Constitutionally protected... and they are not, pure and simple. Even if the SC rules in their favor, they are not Constitutionally protected, to repeal them would just require another court judgement going in the opposite direction... al la Plessy v Ferguson by Brown v Board.

    You were wrong. Flat out, like I said originally.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Wrong, you as a judge have a responsibility to set your personal beliefs aside and look at the constitution as a sacred document not to be tampered with from the bench. I have enjoyed our discussion as I sat here waiting for the snow to stop because I have things to do outside. It's not stopping and the day is growing short so off I go I guess.
    Before leaving, you might consider that for things like civil rights, just because it's 'inconvenient' (I think you used 'inefficient') does not justify denying people their civil rights. Blacks and women had to fight for their civil rights too. Can you honestly say it was right for blacks to suffer all those years of Jim Crow just because there was not enough public momentum or 'popularity' to motivate change in the courts?

    And note also my posts regarding how legal marriage also protects the children of those unions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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