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Thread: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

  1. #631
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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Let me fix your car door analogy, G-man. Because I'm not trying to make you change the size of your car door.

    You want it to be illegal to make a different car door.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    We are gaining support and we have the arguments that involve actual values established by the US Constitution, equal protection, fair treatment, individual rights, etc. You have nothing except attempting to maintain a faulty belief about homosexuality/same sex couples, discriminating against them without any legitimate legal reason for doing so, but rather simply because you don't like/approve of them being married.

    The irony of your post here is that you were earlier arguing that you were in the majority.
    You have no values as established by OUR common Constitution. They get equal protection under the existing laws, they don't get special privileges [marrying another gender was not a part of our laws ] under the laws as that would not be equal [ and please don't start with the state's legitimate interest stuff again, its a false equivalence...saying it three more times does not erase that. I have my vote and my opinion and that along with a minimum of 50 plus % and we maintain the status quo.

    Same sex couples aren't hurt, they will live no doubt. If they were happy type people before, they will be after. If not a happy person, they will probably remain unhappy.

    Go back and reread the posts. The majority assertion was in number of states with same sex bans/definitions of marriage being traditional, 34-16, and with the pew poll coming in at 46% opposed to SSM and 45% agreeing---with an article from pew itself indicating that polling understates opposition to SSM by about 5 to 7% I think the article says. Talk about faulty, you really should be able to read, comprehend and remember a bit better than that for your age.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    There is no necessity nor requirement to allow the non norm, deviance, to be equated with the norm.
    But is it really equating when one does not discriminate?

    All those you mention, they don't get to have everything changed to accommodate them.
    And what is changed in this case?

    And you are flat out wrong in your assessment of the founders. Most were moral upstanding men, men who understood the need for regional differences, understood Federalism, many of whom understood the limits of a national government and the follies of a tyrannical court.
    They also understood the possible tyranny of a majority and very wisely precluded that in our Constitution.

    How about we vote on it by state, that's reasonable. If a state wants SSM, thats up to them [ you seem to be ok with that ].
    So you are married in one state and not in another? Does that make any sense? How about if a state decides to vote divorce illegal?

    If a state doesn't want it, thats up to them [ you don't seem to be okay with that, don't states get equal protection under the law?].
    But states do not get to vote away people's rights.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Help me out here. Can you see the contradiction in these two paragraphs?

    And if that second paragraph is what you feel, then you agree that those who cannot procreate, as would be an impossibility of a same sex gender couple together, have no need for marriage, right?
    Do you apply this reasoning to elderly couples or the infertile? Should their marriages be prevented or annulled if already existing?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    They get equal protection under the existing laws
    Not when they are not allowed to do the same things other can do.

    they don't get special privileges [marrying another gender was not a part of our laws ]
    Why is not allowing to marry a person of the same gender part of it? Why should it remain so?

    I have my vote and my opinion and that along with a minimum of 50 plus % and we maintain the status quo.
    Apparently you do not understand how our society and Constitution work.

    Same sex couples aren't hurt, they will live no doubt.
    But they are denied what you take for granted and neither are you hurt in any way and you too will live.

  6. #636
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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    You have no values as established by OUR common Constitution. They get equal protection under the existing laws, they don't get special privileges [marrying another gender was not a part of our laws ] under the laws as that would not be equal [ and please don't start with the state's legitimate interest stuff again, its a false equivalence...saying it three more times does not erase that. I have my vote and my opinion and that along with a minimum of 50 plus % and we maintain the status quo.
    And no matter how many times you wish otherwise, equal protection works a certain way. SCOTUS created the system, and SCOTUS applies it. You think that's not how it should work, but your opinion on what should be isn't exactly relevant to those nine people.

    You have a fundamental misunderstanding about the constitutional issues here. You're starting with the 51% vote, and you think that is definitive. It isn't. The states and the people are both bound by the constitution. The 9th and 10th amendments give the states a lot of leeway, but in every case the people and the states are still bound by the 14th amendment in the same way they are bound by the 2nd or the 13th. No number of votes, no state constitutional amendment, and no amount of votes of a legislative body can reinstate slavery because the US constitution prevents it with the 13th amendment.

    The 14th works the same way. States have all sorts of power to implement laws, as do the people via ballot measure if their state allows it. But in every case this is bound by the 14th, so the only relevant question here is whether or not same-sex marriage bans violate the 14th amendment. You keep saying the 14th doesn't specifically mention state interests and whatnot. That's entirely true, but it doesn't matter, because the Supreme Court of the United States says that this is how it works.

    And that's why you are about to lose this battle before the Supreme Court, and same-sex marriage will be legal nationwide. I predict middle of 2015, based on how SCOTUS' schedule works. Could theoretically be later this year, but I doubt it.

    Same sex couples aren't hurt, they will live no doubt. If they were happy type people before, they will be after. If not a happy person, they will probably remain unhappy.
    -Property inheritance problems
    -Child custody problems
    -Medical power of attorney
    -Compelled testimony against spouse in civil or criminal cases
    -Confiscated social security/other death benefits

    These are measures of harm.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    then you agree that those who cannot procreate, as would be an impossibility of a same sex gender couple together, have no need for marriage, right?
    That is nothing short of ignorant bigotry.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Roman Empire became Christian.

    Roman Empire no longer exists.

    QED?
    Yeah, well, that looks like kinda like a floater, not in that it is a valid premise, but, you know...
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Yeah, well, that looks like kinda like a floater, not in that it is a valid premise, but, you know...
    Just making fun of your ridiculous implications about historical "same sex cultures."

    You didn't respond to my legitimate questions about that point, so I figured you'd given up on it. So what's the harm in a little lampooning?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    So, tell me, what source would you prefer I show since you refuse to provide any of your own sources, ever?
    That my dear, is a prevarication on your part. Want to amend, or would you rather me to prove this misstatement of truth?

    Ah what the heck, might as well do it now anyhow, some of the pages/posts just from this thread wherein I posted/gave sources:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...rriage-27.html
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...rriage-28.html

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1063065356

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...rriage-42.html

    Lets see...
    Provide something from a valid source... not like the Marriage Equality site please... I mean, can one not tell from which side of the bias fence that would be from...any guesses...

    ...Bueller...Bueller...
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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