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Thread: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

  1. #501
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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    That is your false premise that I have to show harm. Who do we go to if, say in 20 years, we can document the harm that has already been done? What do you pledge to fix what you have wrought upon the rest of us? What would be your remedy then? All liberals folks supporting SSM immediately leave the country they have, perhaps irreparably, damaged...leaving all their possessions in payment for the harm they have inflicted upon the rest of our society?

    No, you will go merrily along finding other ways to create crevices from tiny cracks singing la la la la la when people warn of the dangers.
    Tell you what.

    If you promise not to get Gay married, I promise not to Eat cow balls.

    That way we both get to avoid things we don't like.


    Sound good?

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Cool. We are on the same page. My 14th amendment right to equal protection under the laws should not be up for a popular vote. Given that Supreme Court precedent in Loving v. Virginia found under the 14th amendment that a state had to demonstrate how a legitimate state interest is advanced before it could regulate marriage in a way that would violate my right to equal protection under the law, I look forward to hearing your argument as to what state interest is advanced.
    See, the idea of legitimate state interest is NOT the 14th Amendment... the idea of legitimate state interest was a kind of clever artifice, just a rather blunt tool, an instrument created/utilized to resolve specific issues. Like a certain sized wrench, it doesn't fit all repairs. Like a gun, it can be used for good and it can be used for bad. Being that we cannot stop it from existing, we do need to stop the folks who would use it for ill conceived purposes as best we can.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
    Tell you what.

    If you promise not to get Gay married, I promise not to Eat cow balls.

    That way we both get to avoid things we don't like.


    Sound good?
    Nah, I don't have to make such promises, you are free to go ahead and eat cow balls [ cows don't have balls you do realize, don't you...would be bull, like what you are trying to promote here ].

    Sound good? No, for sounds good, I enjoy music. Ciao.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    This has absolutely nothing to do with SSM. These families exist now and will continue to do so. THey have done so in the face of public abuse and legal discrimination. Gay families HAVE BEEN and will continue to be part of American society. They arent going anywhere.

    However you CHOOSE to deny them the same benefits and legal protections that are accorded to straight couples and families. And can prove zero harm why you believe that's acceptable? blech, you make me ashamed to be a Christian. Many of these protections extend to their children.
    We cannot do anything about what harm, in a free society, people may legally do to others... such as these SS families you speak in such high regard. There are also hetero couples who should not have children and we cannot prevent that either, in such a free society.

    We are tolerant, perhaps often too tolerant in allowing people such legal means to hurt others, especially children. As a society, we have not figured that one out yet. A free society cannot stop all harm before it is done, it can only hope to limit that harm and work at eliminating it, if possible. Surely we DO NOT want to compound the ongoing harm.

    Sorry, it was not ME alone who chooses to deny SS folk anything that they deserve. First of all, they do not deserve what you say they do, and it is our system that makes those decisions, not myself as a individual. And our society is fully within its rights to make its own rules... I know that concept seems a bit beyond you, and many others here, at times. If you read the posts in this thread, there is, and I have so indicated, harm... that this is a part of an ongoing weakening, by the liberal ideology performed through liberal policy, of many, if not all, of the solid institutions developed by a great nation for itself to preserve for its posterity...I spend a great deal of time, and have done so a large part of my life, studying history, with a growing understanding of many of its lessons.

    I would say many here have rather little understanding, besides what a media driven frenzy [ ever wonder how/why that happened?] has craftily ill -informed, of just what it is, as well as the damage incurred, that you and folks that think similarly to you on this and other topics are doing to the foundations of our society. You can't see it? Study some history and remove the rose colored glasses, perhaps.

    And...

    You may have plenty to be ashamed of with regards to your professed Christianity without my, a non-believer in that faith, assistance. With what you express here, you seem to have removed any doubts about it.

    Oh, and as a courtesy, might you keep your bodily malfunctions to yourself when posting to me in the future, please? Certainly not classy and hardly proves persuasive to folks with those higher standards that you are, presumably, hoping to convert.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Nothing good ever comes out of ohio i swear....Yet this appeal may result in scotus taking the case so that even shanties in alabama will be forced to allow gay weddings.
    Or...

    The decision just may, as it should, go the other way, remove all doubt and allow all good people to maintain those stable, traditional institutions handed down to us which have allowed us to reap the abundant bounty which surrounds us all, even those lowly termites who work to destroy it.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    That is your false premise that I have to show harm. Who do we go to if, say in 20 years, we can document the harm that has already been done? What do you pledge to fix what you have wrought upon the rest of us? What would be your remedy then? All liberals folks supporting SSM immediately leave the country they have, perhaps irreparably, damaged...leaving all their possessions in payment for the harm they have inflicted upon the rest of our society?

    No, you will go merrily along finding other ways to create crevices from tiny cracks singing la la la la la when people warn of the dangers.
    You haven't warned us of any dangers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Actual states allowance for this travesty is a rather recent occurence... or hadn't you noticed. It was BJ Clinton, democrat and liberal, that signed both DADT and DOMA, correct? What was the boob's position [ I know, I know, that could be either Barack or Joe ] on SSM in 2008...2009...2010...ummm 2011?
    Yes, a pretty stark shift towards tolerance in a short time, wouldn't you say? Going from nationwide voting for constitutional amendments to a majority in favor of equality in just a decade. Equality won every vote in 2012.

    You're right though. You don't have to prove any harm, any interest in denying same-sex marriage. You can keep your belief for any reason, or no reason at all. The state, however, has this burden. And it's a test they haven't been able to meet even once since Windsor. Even the head of NOM admits now that equality is coming. "There's 5 votes on the supreme court for same-sex marriage." The people who do this for a living couldn't provide an argument to defend same-sex marriage bans. The people who do this for a living realize they've lost. But you? You're confident in victory.

    Or, at least, you pretend to be.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Or...

    The decision just may, as it should, go the other way, remove all doubt and allow all good people to maintain those stable, traditional institutions handed down to us which have allowed us to reap the abundant bounty which surrounds us all, even those lowly termites who work to destroy it.
    Comparing people to insects. Yeah, no disturbing historical connotations there. Earlier, you said several times "we" should have never "offered" tolerance. (as if that's what you've actually done.) What do you mean by that? What change do you think should not have been made?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    One cannot retrieve already spilled milk. There will always be the outliers in any system, we do not have to encourage that, promote that... and we have no imperative to do so. You do not solve a problem by compounding it.

    You ignore the premise...on purpose no doubt, in and effort to make your feeble argument appear stronger. It is not equating gays to pedos, et al, it is because we have no reason to tear down the strong edifice of the institution of traditional marriage, open the floodgates in which the once solid institution will then be trampled further upon by these others to which we also have no desire to allow marriage. Capiche now, do ya?

    When the door has been opened in an effort to make justifiable allowances for past inequities... it is not then to be shoved, pushed further open to allow anybody and everybody, those not justifiable to go through that same door. Sorry, if the law allows/promotes that, it needs fixed. The legitimate state interest test is a farce... almost anything, especially with a further degrading of standards in our society, could eventually pass that test.

    So? No single judge is not the premise. You have liberal termites gnawing away at our foundations and one termite judge finally does break through, and then you have precedent, which is hard, almost impossible if we listen to your side on such things, to walk that back. Ha ha ha....see You need to read OUR history, get a better handle on how such slippage occurs, how the damage is then solidified so more and more damage can be done.
    People like you said this about interracial marriage. How's that damage going for you?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Of course the courts have their place... they do not, however, supersede the will of the people on fundamental cultural constructs. They can tinker at the edges, at least until they become a roadblock to the will of the people. They, because of their position, do not become the new kings who make the people's will inferior.

    I would say all those laws you indicated that we would still have, and in some cases still have, did not have the majority supporting them when they were pushed to the side. There are lines to be drawn, red lines that folks do want adhered to, not the boobama style red lines. And even with all that history of injustice, that does not mean your side is right because we overcame injustice, real injustice, in the past. This is merely silliness, me me me-ness, that will fade as rapidly as it came up.

    Just because you are in the minority does not in any way mean you get to make the decisions for the rest of us... that is foolishness. The Constitution, nor the courts, were meant to do that, they were meant to protect your individual rights and allow you the freedom to say what you want, not to just do anything you want. That is simply an absurd analysis of our governing framework.

    One person's morals are not necessarily equivalent to another's. Newbie smarts rarely equates to the wisdom of the ages.
    The court does supersede the people on any issue where there is a violation of the Constitution, even if the people believe it is a cultural issue, construct, however you wish to try to present it. Segregation was a cultural thing. Banning interracial marriage, cultural thing. The will of the slight majority of the people is always superseded by the US Constitution, and that is where the Courts come in, to ensure the Constitution is being upheld when it comes to laws enacted.

    You would be wrong. Polls from the 1970s show us that the majority (around 70%) of people in the US (not just the South) were against allowing interracial marriages. Even many non-whites were (and some are still) against interracial relationships.

    You are the one here who is trying to use the "me me me-ness" on this issue since you still have yet to show in anyway how same sex couples being allowed to marry would legitimately affect you or society negatively. That means that your resistance to this is merely your personal dislike of same sex couples, homosexuality.

    The last sentence has to be one of the most idiotic things I've ever seen posted. Wisdom of the ages is constantly being improved upon. Wisdom involves understanding, not simply believing something. For a long time the "wisdom of the ages" said that the sun revolved around the Earth and that demons caused people to get sick. And morals are relative. Most people share some very basic morals, but the more specific the moral question, the more people's morals diverge. As for being equivalent, in this case, that is completely subjective. Of course you are going to think your morals are better and worth more than someone's who disagrees with yours. That doesn't make you right.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Counting your turkeys way before they are hatched.

    As those younger currently thinking SSM is okay become adults they start thinking more clearly, like adults. They generally become more conservative. Especially after they realize the line of bull they have been force fed in school, in media and now by government... and should that not happen, wow, what a wonderfully mixed up and predictably war torn world this is soon to become. Once family stability breaks down here completely, once nobody cares much about anything worth caring about anymore, once the weakness that your side's termites are constantly eating away at our foundations to create becomes apparent to the predators out there in the world... and they are out there, waiting... well, we will see if you get to keep your cherished SSM then.

    Once you have chased all the strong away, nursed the rest into being namby pambies, the nation will be ripe for the picking. Yes, no doubt in your lifetime... if the quickening pace that is apparent in just this lifetime does not slow down. That would be unfortunate, yet poetic justice.
    You are wrong. Just as people very rarely change their mind back to thinking interracial marriages are wrong just because they become adults, so it goes with this issue. I am an adult myself, mid-thirties in fact. I've held the same beliefs on this issue since as long as I can remember (including arguing it in high school in the 90s). Even my Catholic mother is for same sex marriage, along with the majority of adults in my family.

    The trends we have prove that everything I stated in the post you quoted me.

    As for the last comments, there is much more strength to fight for others to be treated equally and change unfair laws then to try to keep laws in place that are only there for your personal beliefs.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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