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Thread: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Counting your turkeys way before they are hatched.

    As those younger currently thinking SSM is okay become adults they start thinking more clearly, like adults. They generally become more conservative. Especially after they realize the line of bull they have been force fed in school, in media and now by government... and should that not happen, wow, what a wonderfully mixed up and predictably war torn world this is soon to become. Once family stability breaks down here completely, once nobody cares much about anything worth caring about anymore, once the weakness that your side's termites are constantly eating away at our foundations to create becomes apparent to the predators out there in the world... and they are out there, waiting... well, we will see if you get to keep your cherished SSM then.

    Once you have chased all the strong away, nursed the rest into being namby pambies, the nation will be ripe for the picking. Yes, no doubt in your lifetime... if the quickening pace that is apparent in just this lifetime does not slow down. That would be unfortunate, yet poetic justice.
    People sometimes become more conservative as they get older, but this is not an issue that reflects that.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Similarly, same sex marriage does not legitimately affect you either. Their not having it also does not affect you.

    What would be the legitimate state interest in not allowing a 40 year old to marry a 7 year old? Besides your prejudices regarding age, what would be the legitimate state interest? If I wanted to marry a tree, what would be the legitimate state interest in not allowing that? What if I wanted to marry an adult chicken, or a rooster for that matter, what would be the legitimate state interest there? I can marry a woman, you want to allow me to marry a man, why cannot I marry a horse? Why not all three? What is the legitimate state interest? Matter of fact, I want to marry 73 other people all at the same time, two of them my siblings, one my parent, what would be the legitimate state interest in stopping me?
    This was already answered. Read the responses to your posts or just stop posting entirely.

    And same-sex marriage bans do affect me. They prevent me from marrying a man. That I do not choose to exercise such a right is irrelevant. Much in the way a gun ban affects me despite my not owning a gun.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Your argument is that Constutional rights should be up for a vote.
    Please point out where I said anything of the sort.

    Rights guaranteed in the Constitution, while they may certainly be amended in some cases, though not the inalienable ones, are not up for a vote. I will ask you to mention which rights that you feel that I would think should be up for a vote.

    Ones not mentioned in the Constitution most certainly can be voted upon. Marriage? Definitely.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    That is not how our system works. It falls on the state to justify why rights are being infringed. You cannot put forth a legitimate state interest that is advanced so you reject judicial authority and subsequently the entire Constitutional system. You are a straight up populist. You support mob rule.
    While you are looking for where I might have said what you say I said, might you also show me where I would find that [ in red above ] in our beloved Constitution? I am curious, point me in the right direction, please.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Still not naming any effect. It's not on me to disprove harm, it's on you to prove it.


    I've answered this many times. Children and animals and objects cannot sign legal contracts, the latter two because they aren't people. Sufficient state interest exists to prevent children from signing legal contracts, as they lack the capacity to make informed decisions regarding something like this.

    Your turn.


    Oh, so just the sodomy laws then. My apologies. You support the government deciding what can go on in our bedrooms.


    That's a social issue, not a legal one. You will still get to hate gay people all you want, you have that right. And I have the right to call you out for your hate.


    You still can't identify any way in which this affects you.
    You can play the game to your perceived advantage all you want, I will play it to mine as well. I don't have to prove anything, I like the system as it is currently. We will work diligently to remove SSM from the offending states as we go forward, returning all to status normal.

    Oh yes, but all that can be changed by whim of man. Children can be given the right of consent, by law. What about child prodigies? They might even be smarter than you. Age is just a number, some never really grown up. And if you do not think all of this can change, even rather suddenly, shockingly suddenly, ask the people who would never even have imagined that the idea of SSM would ever go anywhere just 20, just 10 years ago. So you cannot rest your empty laurels upon such a flimsy premise. There is no legitimate state interest in stopping someone from marrying a horse, a house, a light pole, the Eiffel Tower or all 4 at the same time. Would it harm you if they did, huh? How does it hurt you if entire groups of people wanted to marry icebergs? Are you some low down icebergaphobe, are ya?

    As regards sodomy laws, I haven't formed a solid opinion. But maybe it would be best to leave it up to each state, perhaps even the local community to set their own standards, sure. And yeah, despite your maybe wanting to murder someone in your bedroom, no, we are not letting you off just cause you did it there, sorry. Laws follow us all wherever the crime goes.

    Aren't you just the overly presumptuous one? I don't hate gay people. I detest what they are attempting, what harm they are willing to inflict on society...do not want to even wander close to thinking about what it is they do in their spare time... but keep your offensive misjudgements about another's character to yourself, please.

    Yeah, you cannot identify in any way how it will affect you either...and again remember, we are not base running here.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post

    I detest what they are attempting, what harm they are willing to inflict on society...do not want to even wander close to thinking about what it is they do in their spare time... but keep your offensive
    Harm you cannot explain to anyone. Harm you cannot specify at all.

    You know what I call harm that nobody can identify, detect, or measure? Delusion.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Yeah, you cannot identify in any way how it will affect you either...and again remember, we are not base running here.
    A ban prevents me from marrying a man. The fact that I have no desire to do so is irrelevant. Much in the same way a gun ban affects me despite my not currently owning a gun. But I already wrote this, and you ignored it before, so I expect two pages from now you'll make this claim again.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Please point out where I said anything of the sort.

    Rights guaranteed in the Constitution, while they may certainly be amended in some cases, though not the inalienable ones, are not up for a vote. I will ask you to mention which rights that you feel that I would think should be up for a vote.
    The right to equal protection of the laws as stated in the 14th amendment.

    "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

    While you are looking for where I might have said what you say I said, might you also show me where I would find that [ in red above ] in our beloved Constitution? I am curious, point me in the right direction, please.
    Same place. It is called "due process". I recommend you read the Constitution past the 10th amendment. There have been some developments in the last 200 years.

  8. #478
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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    I think it does affect the thousands of children raised by same sex couples in the state of Michigan.



    The problem with making these kinds of arguments is it throws your personal morality and ability to reason into question. You are basically saying the only argument YOU can make against those situations are "gays can't do it".

    Children cannot consent to sexual activity with an adult and for all the same reasons we would not allow children to serve on a jury, drive a car, enter a contract, buy alcohol, and any other number of reasons that relate to their ability to make decisions, we will not allow them to marry. But the fact that you clearly did not understand that yourself, makes you look pretty...bad.

    But please continue to make arguments like those. It does help the gay rights movement quite a bit when people see the level of reasoning your side is capable.
    That is questionable, extremely questionable. You, being on that side, may feel that it is the same, that there are no provable, discernible differences between SS and OS couples' children and their development... but we don't really know, perhaps the repercussions will not be felt for a generation, maybe more. Just like climate change, current snapshots are not necessarily the best way to analyze medium to long term effects. For instance, we now know that the benefits of access at age 4 to the much praised and promulgated Head Start program are largely absent by First grade. You are willing to play Russian Roulette with these children's lives and with our society, I am not quite that nationally suicidal.

    Oh, and lets get off the silly calls into question bull fecal "stuff"... using that style of low silliness calls into question one's actual debating ability as well as the capacity for actual critical thinking. Nice attempt at a dodge, tho, disparage contentions you cannot really counter. Too clever by half, but maybe less. Your facile attempt was just that.

    Next, its more than disingenuous to put forth something you indicate as being my "only argument". Hard to debate civilly with someone that insolently presumptuous... and that wrong. There are myriad "arguments". Going against nature, going against all established religious practices [ against the wisdom of the ages, empirical evidence ], a tyranny of the minority over the majority, going against the people's will and our ability to determine what is allowable and not in our own culture, SSM being absolutely unnecessary... well, you would get the idea, if you really wanted to, but I think you consciously turn away.

    As was itemized in another recent post of mine in this thread, all that rationality you present with regard to children...all can be erased, changed by a stroke of a pen, a judgement of an activist judge with the subsequent precedent, many things could go, and go rapidly, from rational to the irrational, proven by very the fact that, here we are, 2014, currently arguing whether same sexes should be able to marry one another. How rational is that... and you seem convinced you are on the right side. Ten years from now, if you folks get your way, I will be reminiscing about how I predicted that children will be allowed to serve on a juries, drive a car, marry, whatever... you haven't a clue, nor seemingly a care, as to what Pandoras you will be releasing upon us all.

    Oh, and thank you, I most dedicatedly will continue to make the good, the rational arguments, allow folks such as yourself to be seen to constantly attempting to dodge them, then fading as you flail away, following down a newly discovered path of social deviance.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

  9. #479
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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    People sometimes become more conservative as they get older, but this is not an issue that reflects that.
    How about we give it the time for many of them to actually get older before we pronounce, eh? Good lord.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    How about we give it the time for many of them to actually get older before we pronounce, eh? Good lord.
    This issue was not invented last week.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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