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Thread: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

  1. #421
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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    To endorse the people to act like Nero seems ill fated to me. Taxpayers should be furious about their will being countermanded by a tyranny of the few.

    We had a revolution about that.
    A logical fallacy that assumes that anything done or liked by a bad person must be bad itself, taking Not So Different to absurd levels.
    The premise seems to be that bad people must have a way to tell if something is evil. Either that, or bad people are repulsed by anything that isn't at least as evil as they are. Whatever the reason, bad people magically will only associate with things that are bad. Therefore people claim a thing is bad because bad people associate with it.
    This is a concept called The Association Fallacy, which often overlaps with Godwin's Law, due to how often Hitler is used for this (also known as Reductio ad Hitlerum).
    After all, Hitler has gained the reputation for being the very embodiment of darkest evil, who oozed "pure liquid malevolence" right out of his pores. So, he supposedly would only do/like/own things that are as evil as him. Things like sitting on a chair, wearing clothes, eating, taking a walk, and breathing. Hitler did those things, but that doesn't make them bad. Hitler is not a reason things are bad.
    We don't think mass murder is bad because Hitler, Stalin, or other bad people did them. We think those people are bad because they committed mass murder. In other words, this trope is backwards. A thing being bad stands on its own as bad.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sababa View Post
    This is the dumbest argument I see from your side. I love conservatives who want the government to tell you who you can love.
    Hmmm... can you point out exactly who on this side EVER said anything like what you are saying we say? No. People can love whoever they want, who could even stop them if they wanted?

    Polite people call that being blatantly disingenuous. Others have less gracious terms for misrepresenting [ not telling the truth about ] another person's views...just how might you label it, Sababa?
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    it would be scary if the courts ruled you could castrate people and force them to marry you but that doesn't seem to be happening

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by WorldWatcher View Post
    Commonwealth of Virginia, circa 1966:

    Blacks can marry blacks

    White can marry whites

    Paraphrasing their argument before the Courts in Loving v. Virginia: "Just where is this race discrimination? All races have the same rights, all, if they want to marry, have to marry one of the race... that is equal for all races. What do you not get about that?"




    Please identify the defining characteristic under the law which determines in the below set, who can and cannot Civilly Marry:

    Heterosexual Man + Heterosexual Woman = Legal
    Heterosexual Man + Homosexual Woman = Legal
    Homosexual Man + Heterosexual Woman = Legal
    Homosexual Man + Homosexual Woman = Legal
    Heterosexual Man + Heterosexual Man = Illegal
    Heterosexual Man + Homosexual Man = Illegal
    Homosexual Man + Homosexual Man = Illegal
    Heterosexual Woman + Heterosexual Woman = Illegal
    Heterosexual Woman + Homosexual Woman = Illegal
    Homosexual Woman + Homosexual Woman = Illegal



    >>>>
    Race is not gender, so what do you not get about that, eh? Skin color is nothing similar to the differences in anatomy, the functions of that anatomy, the value rendered to society of these differences, blah blah blah. You can structure your arguments similarly, but you cannot get around the fact that male and female structures are very different. So, way way way different argument.

    In addition to that, a society may decide what it will and will not accept. Hanging your hopes on the technicalities of similarly structured cases does not make your case [ I thought we had previously gone over this ].

    Now, thanks for all the typing to get to: What do you not get about all genders being equally able to marry someone of the opposite sex? That is what we require. That is what we SHOULD require.

    You don't think a society can make its own rules? You think that every minority that so desires can use this, and similar arguments, to force any of its ways upon the rest of society? That We, society, can have no say in our own society? That is what you are advocating?
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by blarg View Post
    A logical fallacy that assumes that anything done or liked by a bad person must be bad itself, taking Not So Different to absurd levels.
    The premise seems to be that bad people must have a way to tell if something is evil. Either that, or bad people are repulsed by anything that isn't at least as evil as they are. Whatever the reason, bad people magically will only associate with things that are bad. Therefore people claim a thing is bad because bad people associate with it.
    This is a concept called The Association Fallacy, which often overlaps with Godwin's Law, due to how often Hitler is used for this (also known as Reductio ad Hitlerum).
    After all, Hitler has gained the reputation for being the very embodiment of darkest evil, who oozed "pure liquid malevolence" right out of his pores. So, he supposedly would only do/like/own things that are as evil as him. Things like sitting on a chair, wearing clothes, eating, taking a walk, and breathing. Hitler did those things, but that doesn't make them bad. Hitler is not a reason things are bad.
    We don't think mass murder is bad because Hitler, Stalin, or other bad people did them. We think those people are bad because they committed mass murder. In other words, this trope is backwards. A thing being bad stands on its own as bad.
    Whoa... I would say perhaps someone is on their way to writing the next manifesto...

    If you want to take on what I meant by the Nero reference, if you want to counter my assertion of tyranny by the few, have at it. But please refrain from gobbledygook like that above. If I need to employ a strainer to get a few useful nuggets [ I could find none in what you wrote] then its fairly useless to me.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Race is not gender, so what do you not get about that, eh? Skin color is nothing similar to the differences in anatomy, the functions of that anatomy, the value rendered to society of these differences, blah blah blah. You can structure your arguments similarly, but you cannot get around the fact that male and female structures are very different. So, way way way different argument.

    In addition to that, a society may decide what it will and will not accept. Hanging your hopes on the technicalities of similarly structured cases does not make your case [ I thought we had previously gone over this ].

    Now, thanks for all the typing to get to: What do you not get about all genders being equally able to marry someone of the opposite sex? That is what we require. That is what we SHOULD require.

    You don't think a society can make its own rules? You think that every minority that so desires can use this, and similar arguments, to force any of its ways upon the rest of society? That We, society, can have no say in our own society? That is what you are advocating?
    your discriminating against certain gender combinations in the exact same way race combinations in couples were discriminated against

    nether race or gender matter when it comes to marriage we don't require anything for a marriage that race or gender effects

    pretending people have equality because your applying a rule that benefits you and discriminates against them is dishonest

    what don't you get about this

    (What do you not get about all genders being equally able to marry someone of the opposite sex? That is what we require. That is what we SHOULD require.)

    being the same kind of faulty logic as this

    (What do you not get about all races being equally able to marry someone of the same race? That is what we require. That is what we SHOULD require.)

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Whoa... I would say perhaps someone is on their way to writing the next manifesto...

    If you want to take on what I meant by the Nero reference, if you want to counter my assertion of tyranny by the few, have at it. But please refrain from gobbledygook like that above. If I need to employ a strainer to get a few useful nuggets [ I could find none in what you wrote] then its fairly useless to me.
    sorry I thought you were trying to say nero married a guy, nero was bad so same sex marrage is bad because that bad nero guy did it.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by blarg View Post
    good nice to see that tired deception wont be accepted
    So you misread it then...to add insult to injury, mis-characterized it, too.

    But such is the way of people who either do not understand, or understand then consciously choose to "misappropriate the truth". From which is your provenance, eh?
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by blarg View Post
    your discriminating against certain gender combinations in the exact same way race combinations in couples were discriminated against

    nether race or gender matter when it comes to marriage we don't require anything for a marriage that race or gender effects

    pretending people have equality because your applying a rule that benefits you and discriminates against them is dishonest

    what don't you get about this

    (What do you not get about all genders being equally able to marry someone of the opposite sex? That is what we require. That is what we SHOULD require.)

    being the same kind of faulty logic as this

    (What do you not get about all races being equally able to marry someone of the same race? That is what we require. That is what we SHOULD require.)
    Don't know if you have taken the time to observe this but

    Race and gender are dissimilar, not the exact same, just as the decisions are dissimilar. So your exactness argument relies upon a complete misunderstanding of the differences between race and gender.

    Re: gender not mattering---- That is your opinion and you are surely welcome to harbor it. I certainly cannot seem to disabuse you of such false notions.

    You truly know very very very little about me and my circumstances... so while all people can have their own opinions about such, you can apply the rule about everybody having opinions here. So to speak of what is beneficial or not to me, when you haven't the first clue, well...
    and...We are not guaranteed outcomes, blarg, equality under the law, however we chose ultimately to construe that, will be our destiny or our fate. Not everybody is going to be happy with the outcome, and the fight will no doubt continue.

    As for the last of your facile attempts, see above.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by blarg View Post
    sorry I thought you were trying to say nero married a guy, nero was bad so same sex marrage is bad because that bad nero guy did it.
    Nope, but its cool, we all make similar mistakes at times. Now I have at least an idea of what exactly you were going on about... before I was scratching my head.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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