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Thread: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    If the people had no say in who is in government you MAY have a point, but I refer you to the opening line of our Constitution... "We the People of the United States..."
    It's a matter of fact of who is in command. Your argument is like saying that the solders of a unit are the commanders of that unit. It's foolish nonsense that must ignore the hierarchy that is clearly present.

    What the Federal level is doing is removing a state level over reach. Your Libertarian POV is noted, however is a minority view on the role of Government in marriage. There are a variety of legal benefits to marriage a class of people are denied under the current ban on SSM. This simply removes that boot on Same Sex folks wanting what the rest of us have- the government isn't picking my pocket to give SSM folks the same legal standing.
    I have had people from all over the political spectrum agree with me on this point, and it would appear that the more time that passes the more people that agree with me. Of course, a great deal of that has more to do with marriage becoming less popular, but the point remains, that it is not only libertarians that agree with me.

    The idea of a government marriage isn't the issue, it is the legal status of SSM folks in forming a life together. Your Libertarian sensibilities maybe offended that a society embraces the idea of marriage as both a emotional and legal bonding... but the 'fix' is easy enough for you.... don't get married, just live together...
    Don't worry, I have no plans to get married. I do however have to avoid common law marriage states to make your plan workable.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Yes, we understand the above is your opinion. Many of these bans, or in many cases only a statement of what is considered in the culture to be rightful marriage, has been through the arduous paces of becoming an amendment. That is an indication of the common will...a willingness to jump through all the hoops necessary, deliberately and persistently enough to become a solid declaration of the citizen's will.

    You see, We the People are still sovereign... we only give our consent to be governed... the will of the people to decide their own culture should not denied...sorry we need to disagree on that.
    How is that "will of the people"? Over half the voting populace doesn't vote in the first place. It's perhaps will of about 1/4 of the people.

    Regardless, ever since government usurped marriage and created the marriage license, marriage has become government issued and recognized contract. The individual has right to contract and the government may not discriminate. As such, SSM is properly allowed.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    We conservatives are about CONserving the union, not destroying it.
    Or expanding our government aggressively against the rights and liberties of the People, growing imperial wars, pandering to corporate interest, etc.

    Conserving the union. That's rich. When was the last time any Republocrat was interested in that?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Is that why more young people today consider marriage a net loss and the risks not worth the reward? How is those alimony laws working out for ya?
    And you, the authoritarian, would deny them the choice in the first place.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    No there's not, once again, you proved by your own words that you care nothing for constitution or anything other than winning at any cost. The pretense has not been mine.
    You haven't read even one of the decisions that have overturned same-sex marriage bans, so keep telling yourself that, buddy.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    You are mistaken. State Supreme Courts are still bound by the Federal Constitution, and state constitutions are similarly bound. If it violates the 14th amendment, it's unconstitutional and a judge at the state level is still bound to overturn it. They have no obligation to wait for a Federal judge to do it. A state constitutional amendment absolutely can be overturned by a state judge if it violates the US constitution. Imagine if Ohio passed an amendment to reinstate slavery. You're telling me you believe a state court would have to just throw up their hands and say "Welp, can't do anything about it!"

    Yes, these are the proper means. These guys do this for a living, they're not just making things up as they go. And their legal arguments are sound, based on existing precedent and law.
    Well, we don't really know if it violates the 14th yet, now do we?

    As regards the re-institution of slavery into one of the united states, well, there is a specific amendment addressing that issue, so its not quite the same, yano? The 14th says nothing whatsoever about same sex marriage whereas the 13th did say something exlicit about ending slavery [prohibited its existence]. So maybe you might pick a slightly better example?

    Some judges are making it up as they go, known as activist judges...and they are in the state supreme courts at times as well. See the Gore v Bush Florida State SC decision. And you are really dreaming regarding sound legal opinions in each case. The SCOTUS cannot even boast that.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by iacardsfan View Post
    Its scary that you think that it is acceptable to oppress a group of people based on your beliefs.
    Boo.

    Gosh, so do you think we should oppress [by that I mean even going to the point of putting them in jail] murderers?

    How scary. How absurd.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Well, we don't really know if it violates the 14th yet, now do we?

    As regards the re-institution of slavery into one of the united states, well, there is a specific amendment addressing that issue, so its not quite the same, yano? The 14th says nothing whatsoever about same sex marriage whereas the 13th did say something exlicit about ending slavery [prohibited its existence]. So maybe you might pick a slightly better example?

    Some judges are making it up as they go, known as activist judges...and they are in the state supreme courts at times as well. See the Gore v Bush Florida State SC decision. And you are really dreaming regarding sound legal opinions in each case. The SCOTUS cannot even boast that.
    My example works fine because we do know it violates the 14th. Numerous judges have ruled this. Windsor set the precedent. Heightened scrutiny, a test that such a ban cannot possibly pass. You object? Ok. Provide the important state interest served by denying marriage to two people of the same gender, and describe how the measure is substantially related to that interest.

    "Activist judge" is the cry of people who have no argument other than the judge ruled in a way they don't like. People with a real rebuttal will detail that rebuttal and back it up with something.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Well, we don't really know if it violates the 14th yet, now do we?

    As regards the re-institution of slavery into one of the united states, well, there is a specific amendment addressing that issue, so its not quite the same, yano? The 14th says nothing whatsoever about same sex marriage whereas the 13th did say something exlicit about ending slavery [prohibited its existence]. So maybe you might pick a slightly better example?

    Some judges are making it up as they go, known as activist judges...and they are in the state supreme courts at times as well. See the Gore v Bush Florida State SC decision. And you are really dreaming regarding sound legal opinions in each case. The SCOTUS cannot even boast that.
    The 14th amendment doesn't require a laundry list of every conceivable law it would apply to. All that needs to be demonstrated is whether something does violate equal protection, as laws against gay marriage have repeatedly been shown to.

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    re: Judge strikes down Michigan's ban on gay marriage[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Boo.

    Gosh, so do you think we should oppress [by that I mean even going to the point of putting them in jail] murderers?

    How scary. How absurd.
    This post is a particularly good example of why your side of the gay marriage debate doesn't do well in court.

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