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Thread: Connecticut chimp attack victim seeks right to sue state

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    Re: Connecticut chimp attack victim seeks right to sue state

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that is not the issue. the issue is whether she has a right of action against the state. I say not
    And I say she does based on the fact that the state did not perform its duties after it:

    1) Created a law designed to prohibit the ownership of apes over 50 pounds because of this chimp..
    2) Allowed the owners of this animal to keep him in enclosures that did not follow Massachusetts law..
    3) Refused to follow Massachusetts state law and dispose of the animal accordingly..

    At every point of the equation the state was negligent and the fact that it was negligent allowed for this attack to occur. As I see it, the state will settle out of court and pay out a large sum of money because it failed to act for 6 years. What are they going to argue? That the same state where it takes days for animal control to put down a pibtull took 6 years to put a chimpanzee in a suitable enclosure?
    Last edited by Hatuey; 03-23-14 at 01:24 AM.
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    Re: Connecticut chimp attack victim seeks right to sue state

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    And I say she does based on the fact that the state did not perform its duties after it:

    1) Created a law designed to prohibit the ownership of apes over 50 pounds because of this chimp..
    2) Allowed the owners of this animal to keep him in enclosures that did not follow Massachusetts law..
    3) Refused to follow Massachusetts state law and dispose of the animal accordingly..

    At every point of the equation the state was negligent and the fact that it was negligent allowed for this attack to occur.
    uh sorry you are wrong

    that doesn't create a private right of action anymore than the police can be liable for not shutting down a known public nuisance that leads to injury



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    Re: Connecticut chimp attack victim seeks right to sue state

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh sorry you are wrong

    that doesn't create a private right of action anymore than the police can be liable for not shutting down a known public nuisance that leads to injury
    You're being purposely obtuse now. If the state acknowledged the specific danger, created a law because of the specific danger, knew where the danger was and still refused to follow the laws - the state is at fault for not following its own guidelines.
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    Re: Connecticut chimp attack victim seeks right to sue state

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You're being purposely obtuse now. If the state acknowledged the specific danger, created a law because of the specific danger, knew where the danger was and still refused to follow the laws - the state is at fault for not following its own guidelines.
    obtuse-so you handle these sort of suits and have professional experience

    what statute allows the woman to get by sovereign immunity?

    you still haven't figured out that when a state violates its own laws, that alone doesn't create a private right of action

    is "obtuse" an ad hom attack hatuey?



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    Re: Connecticut chimp attack victim seeks right to sue state

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Real life exists, the monkey exists, and that womans hands and face really existed. What did not exist-was any protection by the state. This is fact, not how you believe things should be.

    And now that the woman has likely millions in bills-its time to go after the deep pockets-thats all this is. The courts have already ruled that the state has NO requirement to protect any individual. Again, this is fact, not your dream of how things work.
    The legal forcefulness of a judge's opinion doesn't make it somehow more of a fact. The state has an agency for this kind of danger. That agency is paid for out of the treasury. That woman is a tax payer. She is not a beneficiary of the service she was forced to buy into. Compensation is the appropriate response.

    That's how societal structures and power-relationships work, no matter what the judge says or what happens.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 03-23-14 at 02:05 AM.
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    Re: Connecticut chimp attack victim seeks right to sue state

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    The animal was illegally owned and the state knew about it. She's a citizen and a taxpayer like anyone else. Even if she used bad judgment, she has a right to be protected from the things that her elected representatives determined themselves to be dangerous to her but did nothing about.
    That is not how liability works, the state did not cause this injury.

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    Re: Connecticut chimp attack victim seeks right to sue state

    Quote Originally Posted by Del Zeppnile View Post
    That is not how liability works, the state did not cause this injury.
    Liability works a lot of ways.

    In this case, the state repurposed money from citizens to task an agency with protecting the citizens from dangerous animals, then failed to act in that capacity when the drawn out process preceding this event indicated intervention was necessary.

    The Commissioner even agreed that the agency didn't behave appropriately, but noted that this is the sort of mistake the state is allowed to overlook because making good on the failure would open the floodgates to a stream of lawsuits that would impede its ability to fulfill its greater prerogatives.

    In short, the state is too important to be impeded with moral responsibility for its failures.

    They key point here is that the state took the victim's money for the treasury under the threat of legal action if she tried to evade taxation. Her money bought her into the package of public services the state provides, including protection from situations of this nature. That is the key. If they hadn't purposed the role of protecting the public from dangerous animals and tased an agency to that effect, the moral obligation would not exist at all because the prerogative of individuals to protect themselves (which conservatives assert exists) would never have been taken away from them.

    As it is, the state is arguing that it has the right to collect taxes to provide services and then fail to provide those services without any consequence.
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    Re: Connecticut chimp attack victim seeks right to sue state

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    The legal forcefulness of a judge's opinion doesn't make it somehow more of a fact. The state has an agency for this kind of danger. That agency is paid for out of the treasury. That woman is a tax payer. She is not a beneficiary of the service she was forced to buy into. Compensation is the appropriate response.

    That's how societal structures and power-relationships work, no matter what the judge says or what happens.
    That is not how this works.....

    The state doesn't owe this lady anything and this case will get thrown out.

    There is absolutely ZERO precedent to support anything you said, which was clearly made up on the spot.

    The only possible way for this case to even have a chance to proceed would be a) the chimp was illegal and there is proof the state/animal control failed to remove it or b) the chimp was known to be a danger and the state/animal control failed to remove the animal.

    Furthermore your pesudo-logic here is quite funny considering dogs (and other animals) bite/kill/injure people every year, yet have you ever seen a party sue the state over a dog bite or even a swarm of bee stings?

    This lawsuit isn't going to make it past summery judgement.

    The only person responsible for this nonsense is the idiot who thought it was a good idea to have a chimp as a pet - not the state.
    Last edited by Mr.Nick; 03-23-14 at 02:33 AM.

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    Re: Connecticut chimp attack victim seeks right to sue state

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    http://news.yahoo.com/chimp-attack-v...--finance.html



    On one hand, the state knew there was a dangerous animal in this man's house and did nothing about it. On the other, she knew perfectly well this man kept a dangerous animal and should have stopped visiting. Some expect governments to deal with threats to communities (like this animal) and there are those who argue on behalf of personal responsibility. This case blurs the line between those opinion.
    I think the government should only allow people to hold dangerous wildlife animals if they have a permit, have a safe enclosure and keep the animals in a manner that prevents them from becoming a danger (by taking reasonable and acceptable precautions) to visitors or the general public. But I do not think they should be financially culpable in this case.
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    Re: Connecticut chimp attack victim seeks right to sue state

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    The legal forcefulness of a judge's opinion doesn't make it somehow more of a fact. The state has an agency for this kind of danger. That agency is paid for out of the treasury. That woman is a tax payer. She is not a beneficiary of the service she was forced to buy into. Compensation is the appropriate response.

    That's how societal structures and power-relationships work, no matter what the judge says or what happens.
    This is how you'd like things to work, but that isn't really important to the case. Its almost a disney channel understanding of the issues involved.

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