Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 25

Thread: Concerns Russia will move into rest of Ukraine soon

  1. #11
    Sage


    MaggieD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Chicago Area
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    43,242
    Blog Entries
    43

    Re: Concerns Russia will move into rest of Ukraine soon

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    Intelligence from field has White House 'very concerned' about Russia invading more of Ukraine – possibly soon

    By CNN Chief Washington Correspondent Jake Tapper
    (CNN) - Based on intelligence, Obama administration officials are very concerned the Russians are not being truthful when they say their forces near Ukraine's eastern and southern borders are merely there for training exercises, sources tell CNN.
    Officials assess that Russia – as early as coming days – could use any number of pretexts to justify further military incursions into Ukraine.

    Moscow could express a need to protect Russian-speaking Ukrainians, or to protect transportation lines from Russia to Crimea, or the energy supply to Crimea from the rest of Ukraine.
    Russian troops could accomplish this quickly, officials say, and theoretically before any other nation could even raise objections.
    Officials publicly attribute their skepticism to previous Russian assurances that proved false, and privately say intelligence from the field has bolstered this view of Russia’s plans.
    Asked for a candid assessment of White House worries about a possible incursion, a senior administration official told CNN, “We’re very concerned, but it’s by no means certain.”
    Separately, National Security Adviser Susan Rice said Friday the Russians have said they intend to conduct military exercises.
    “Obviously given their past practice, and the gap between what they have said and what they have done, we are watching it with skepticism," she said.
    Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel spoke with his Russian counterpart, Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu, on Thursday.
    Shoigu provided “assurance that the troops he has arrayed along the border are there to conduct exercises only, that they had no intention of crossing the border into Ukraine, and that they would take no aggressive action,” according to a Pentagon read-out of the call.

    First on CNN: Intelligence from field has White House 'very concerned' about Russia invading more of Ukraine – possibly soon – The Lead with Jake Tapper - CNN.com Blogs

    I believe this is a given. Thoughts?
    The only thought I have is that a full diplomatic press ought to be put on Russia to allow the people to vote and have the UN supervise it. This is in their backyard. To completely alienate a superpower over this seems very unwise to me. So stop the threats and look for a compromise.

  2. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Chicago Illinois
    Last Seen
    10-14-15 @ 09:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    56,981

    Re: Concerns Russia will move into rest of Ukraine soon

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    No, I don't think this will happen for two reasons. The Russians don't want to be financially responsible for the entirety of the Ukraine. And two, they're starting to see the ability of the West to hurt them substantially on an economic level.
    Heya Grip. Yeah I think the Credit Agencies hurt them more than he thought. Although on a side note Those Credit Agencies can do this to just about any country. Causing them to take a hit and more than most think as well.

    Still he has made some moves to scale back tensions after getting what he wanted. Already they are looking at recouping monetary losses with the Ukraine.


    Putin: No Need for Further Retaliation Against US

    Putin formally gets Crimea; Ukraine, EU sign deal......



    Russia is expected to play a major role in the planned withdrawal of U.S. and other NATO forces from Afghanistan later this year by providing transit corridors via its territory, and Putin seemed to indicate that the Kremlin at this stage has no intentions of shutting the route.

    Moscow also appeared to be warming to the deployment of monitors from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, the top trans-Atlantic security and rights group.

    Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said that Russia would welcome sending the OSCE observers to Russian-speaking regions in eastern Ukraine on condition that their number and locations are clearly set, but he made it clear that they wouldn't be let into Crimea.

    Amid its political crisis, Ukraine is teetering on the verge of bankruptcy, struggling to pay off billions of dollars in debts in the coming months. The U.S. and the European Union have pledged to quickly offer a bailout.

    It owes Russia $2 billion in overdue payments for natural gas supplies. Putin made it clear that Russia will further raise the heat on Ukraine by urging it to pay back a $3 billion bailout loan granted to Yanukovych in December.

    In addition, Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev suggested that Russia should reclaim $11 billion in gas rebates it gave Ukraine in exchange for a deal extending Russia's lease on its navy base in Crimea until 2042. Medvedev argued that since Crimea is part of Russia now, the deal is void......snip~

    Breaking News

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...-russia-5.html

  3. #13
    Light△Bender

    grip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    ☚ ☛
    Last Seen
    12-04-17 @ 04:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    17,186
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Concerns Russia will move into rest of Ukraine soon

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Heya Grip. Yeah I think the Credit Agencies hurt them more than he thought. Although on a side note Those Credit Agencies can do this to just about any country. Causing them to take a hit and more than most think as well.

    Still he has made some moves to scale back tensions after getting what he wanted. Already they are looking at recouping monetary losses with the Ukraine.


    Putin: No Need for Further Retaliation Against US

    Putin formally gets Crimea; Ukraine, EU sign deal......



    Russia is expected to play a major role in the planned withdrawal of U.S. and other NATO forces from Afghanistan later this year by providing transit corridors via its territory, and Putin seemed to indicate that the Kremlin at this stage has no intentions of shutting the route.

    Moscow also appeared to be warming to the deployment of monitors from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, the top trans-Atlantic security and rights group.

    Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said that Russia would welcome sending the OSCE observers to Russian-speaking regions in eastern Ukraine on condition that their number and locations are clearly set, but he made it clear that they wouldn't be let into Crimea.

    Amid its political crisis, Ukraine is teetering on the verge of bankruptcy, struggling to pay off billions of dollars in debts in the coming months. The U.S. and the European Union have pledged to quickly offer a bailout.

    It owes Russia $2 billion in overdue payments for natural gas supplies. Putin made it clear that Russia will further raise the heat on Ukraine by urging it to pay back a $3 billion bailout loan granted to Yanukovych in December.

    In addition, Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev suggested that Russia should reclaim $11 billion in gas rebates it gave Ukraine in exchange for a deal extending Russia's lease on its navy base in Crimea until 2042. Medvedev argued that since Crimea is part of Russia now, the deal is void......snip~

    Breaking News

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...-russia-5.html
    It's all a 'tit for tat', geopolitical strategy for resources that's been coming for awhile. Putin is not some madman that'll risk annihilation over a small annexation of a former province. The only thing that gets dicey is when they push a little too far or get into personal, ego bashing. I suspect Russia will start to dial this down now, since they've gotten, realistically, all they're going too.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  4. #14
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Chicago Illinois
    Last Seen
    10-14-15 @ 09:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    56,981

    Re: Concerns Russia will move into rest of Ukraine soon

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    It's all a 'tit for tat', geopolitical strategy for resources that's been coming for awhile. Putin is not some madman that'll risk annihilation over a small annexation of a former province. The only thing that gets dicey is when they push a little too far or get into personal, ego bashing. I suspect Russia will start to dial this down now, since they've gotten, realistically, all they're going too.
    Yeah Putin has said so.....but it seems there is always one from the Kremlin reminding us they might or might not go by what Putin says. Moreover the Russians will now finish up with the Southern pipeline, create some jobs and get that going.

    Although Putin has not said he would scale back any Sanctions with EU at the time I had put that up.

  5. #15
    Educator

    WillyPete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    1,180

    Re: Concerns Russia will move into rest of Ukraine soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    Putin allowed for a fast and apparently free election likety split. Let's see Ukraine do the same, oops, it hasn't and to my knowledge no date has been set.

    Sorry, whether we like it or not, Putin has behaved more democratically in this one instance than we or "our" side has.
    There are certainly signs the Crimea election was heavily rigged.

    The big one is that there was no option to maintain the status quo. It was either "go over to the Russians," or "let the Crimean assembly decide to go over to the Russians." <Link>

    Claims of 95+% Yes vote on a 80% turnout seem unlikely, at best. With numbers like that, you'd expect the whole of Ukraine would be chomping at the bit to go to the Russians.

    There are reports of intimidation of opposition journalists, and military units hanging out near polling places.

    I'd say there was a bit more than pure democracy in play, here.

  6. #16
    Light△Bender

    grip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    ☚ ☛
    Last Seen
    12-04-17 @ 04:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    17,186
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Concerns Russia will move into rest of Ukraine soon

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Yeah Putin has said so.....but it seems there is always one from the Kremlin reminding us they might or might not go by what Putin says. Moreover the Russians will now finish up with the Southern pipeline, create some jobs and get that going.

    Although Putin has not said he would scale back any Sanctions with EU at the time I had put that up.
    Oh yeah, it's not over yet and could still have all kinds of unseen repercussions.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  7. #17
    Hot Flash Mama
    Summerwind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Last Seen
    01-23-17 @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    11,010

    Re: Concerns Russia will move into rest of Ukraine soon

    Quote Originally Posted by WillyPete View Post
    There are certainly signs the Crimea election was heavily rigged.

    The big one is that there was no option to maintain the status quo. It was either "go over to the Russians," or "let the Crimean assembly decide to go over to the Russians." <Link>

    Claims of 95+% Yes vote on a 80% turnout seem unlikely, at best. With numbers like that, you'd expect the whole of Ukraine would be chomping at the bit to go to the Russians.

    There are reports of intimidation of opposition journalists, and military units hanging out near polling places.

    I'd say there was a bit more than pure democracy in play, here.
    That's not accurate to what I'm reading. The second option does give the Crimean assembly the OPTION some day to work with Russia, but according to the article it is on it's face an option to be essentially autonomous entity INSIDE Ukraine. Since Ukraine isn't really a "known" entity at the moment, it makes sense to word it that way, to me. How can you ask a citizenry to make a definitive choice about an unknown, but to be autonomous within a unknown that you hope will work out, that seems legit. Then if Ukraine turns out as some hope it will, then the Crimean parliament could re-unionize with Ukraine, or if it ends up an extreme right wing can of nuts, they can either remain autonomous or join Russia. In the end, no one forced anyone to choose numero uno, and a strong majority did. Spin it as you like, I guess. To me it seems kind of like,... there's a coup on the US, Mexico fearing for it's citizens in Texas, decide to invade Texas in a bloodless invasion (although unlike Crimea, there are no forces already there). Then the President of Mexico sets a referendum offering Texas to become part of Mexico or the become an autonomous country within US, hmmm, I hear Texas kind of wants to do that, don't they? Apparently Crimeans didn't.
    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

  8. #18
    Educator

    WillyPete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    1,180

    Re: Concerns Russia will move into rest of Ukraine soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    That's not accurate to what I'm reading. The second option does give the Crimean assembly the OPTION some day to work with Russia, but according to the article it is on it's face an option to be essentially autonomous entity INSIDE Ukraine. Since Ukraine isn't really a "known" entity at the moment, it makes sense to word it that way, to me.
    I'd be happy to read through any links you'd care to provide. My knowledge is far from complete.

    The pro-Russian positioning of the Ukrainian assembly was well known in advance of the election. As a practical matter, the second option amounts to a whitewash, to provide false legitimacy for people who are looking to rationalize the event.


    To me it seems kind of like,... there's a coup on the US, Mexico fearing for it's citizens in Texas, decide to invade Texas in a bloodless invasion (although unlike Crimea, there are no forces already there). Then the President of Mexico sets a referendum offering Texas to become part of Mexico or the become an autonomous country within US...
    I think the better analogy is how we took Texas away from Mexico, first by infiltrating it with settlers under false pretenses, demanding they hand it over, and finally by ginning up a confrontation and taking it by force of arms.

  9. #19
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Last Seen
    08-18-15 @ 09:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,974

    Re: Concerns Russia will move into rest of Ukraine soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    Oh, noes! I see the Obama administration is taking another page out of the Bush playbook and hyping whatever it takes to demonize it's perceived enemy in order to justify it's garbage. Who knew? Oh, all of us that see him as essentially Bush-lite, and have since the beginning.
    Yep, that about sums that up.

  10. #20
    Bohemian Revolutionary
    Demon of Light's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    03-07-17 @ 12:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,095

    Re: Concerns Russia will move into rest of Ukraine soon

    I think they may be acting more wary than reasonable because Crimea took some people by surprise. While a move into eastern Ukraine is possible, this would need a stronger pretext than that asserted in Crimea. There would have to be greater international recognition of a problem in need of solving and one where a resolution between the camps may not be plausible. Basically, Ukraine would have to be in a state of civil war or at least see an intense armed resistance.
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
    - Khalil Gibran

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •