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Ukraine Sets Deadline for Militias to Surrender Illegal Guns

WCH

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http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/21/w...rrender-illegal-guns.html?hpw&rref=world&_r=1

KIEV, Ukraine — In an effort to stabilize Ukraine and extend its authority, the interim government has set a deadline of Friday for turning in the illegal firearms that are now carried openly by so-called self-defense groups in Independence Square, the politically important plaza in the center of the capital.

The order was seconded on Thursday by the French ambassador to Ukraine, Alain Rémy, who said the disarmament of the militias that helped overthrow the former government is a central requirement for the European Union to begin disbursing financial aid, along with the government fighting corruption.

Prime Minister Arseniy P. Yatsenyuk, who was a staunch supporter of the protesters but never condoned violent tactics, set the deadline for Friday, the day Ukraine is scheduled to sign the political articles of an association agreement with the European Union.

snip


Fat Chance anyone will give up their guns in that part of world.
 
Incredible. Nuclear disarmament causes Ukraine to be exposed to invasion and conquest - for which now there is an invading army occupying part of their country.

Now the demand of those same powers that tricked Ukraine into exposing itself by getting rid of their nuclear arsenal for the apparent purpose of helping Russia conquer Ukraine, now pressuring the Ukraine to totally disarm to allow Russia to roll over all of Ukraine with no opposition whatsoever.

Apparently, Ukraine has the most gullible and stupid leaders on earth. They should be handing out weapons advising "get ready to kill Russians if it comes to it."

Russia has no reason to fear the uniformed Ukraine military. The only thing to fear are armed citizens and citizen's militia.

A Ukraine citizen with a scoped hunting rifle is more danger to Russians than a Ukraine tank. The Ukraine government should be advising their military to prepare to remove their uniforms and act as civilian freedom fighters, dispersing light arms and explosives as diversely as possible.

My conclusion is the Ukraine government is preparing to surrender to Russia having been successfully tricked by the USA - calling it "democracy."
 
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Incredible. Nuclear disarmament causes Ukraine to be exposed to invasion and conquest - for which now there is an invading army occupying part of their country.

Now the demand of those same powers that tricked Ukraine into exposing itself by getting rid of their nuclear arsenal for the apparent purpose of helping Russia conquer Ukraine, now pressuring the Ukraine to totally disarm to allow Russia to roll over all of Ukraine with no opposition whatsoever.

Apparently, Ukraine has the most gullible and stupid leaders on earth. They should be handing out weapons advising "get ready to kill Russians if it comes to it."

If Ukraine's leader are the 'Most' ours come in a close second. Basically wanting the same.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/21/w...rrender-illegal-guns.html?hpw&rref=world&_r=1

KIEV, Ukraine — In an effort to stabilize Ukraine and extend its authority, the interim government has set a deadline of Friday for turning in the illegal firearms that are now carried openly by so-called self-defense groups in Independence Square, the politically important plaza in the center of the capital.

The order was seconded on Thursday by the French ambassador to Ukraine, Alain Rémy, who said the disarmament of the militias that helped overthrow the former government is a central requirement for the European Union to begin disbursing financial aid, along with the government fighting corruption.

Prime Minister Arseniy P. Yatsenyuk, who was a staunch supporter of the protesters but never condoned violent tactics, set the deadline for Friday, the day Ukraine is scheduled to sign the political articles of an association agreement with the European Union.

snip


Fat Chance anyone will give up their guns in that part of world.

Uh Oh, dare I say another civil war in another country, a prediction.
 
If Ukraine's leader are the 'Most' ours come in a close second. Basically wanting the same.

So whose ordered you to give up your guns? Seems to me gun ownership in the U S of A is at an all time high and folks are hoarding ammunition. Hyperbole much?
 
Incredible. Nuclear disarmament causes Ukraine to be exposed to invasion and conquest - for which now there is an invading army occupying part of their country.

A fallacy. The Russians would simply have secured the nukes with the excuse of keeping them out of the hands of militants.

As far as your contention that the Ukraine gov is stupid for want to reign in loose arms and rogue entities I disagree. There are so many factions including Russian sympathizers and covert infiltrators with arms it's ripe for a civil war. I see Putin purposely creating instability and invading pretending to be the peacemaker. All those loose cannons are what he wants.
 
So whose ordered you to give up your guns? Seems to me gun ownership in the U S of A is at an all time high and folks are hoarding ammunition. Hyperbole much?


That's the tendency of a population worried about losing it's ability to counter tyranny.

If you have been keeping up, the agencies of the FedGov are also 'hoarding' ammunition and weaponry at an all time high. Hmm, 'cause/effect'?

The hyperbole crap is really uncalled for.
 
That's the tendency of a population worried about losing it's ability to counter tyranny.

If you have been keeping up, the agencies of the FedGov are also 'hoarding' ammunition and weaponry at an all time high. Hmm, 'cause/effect'?

The hyperbole crap is really uncalled for.

Show me a credible link that proves the Feds are hoarding ammunition.

As far as hyperbole is that a bad word now?
 
This is critical for the Ukraine, a country cannot be stable with independent militias operating within its borders. Libya failed to disarm many of its tribal militas after their civil war and it did not end well, likewise Israel succeeded in disarming its militias and domestic terrorist organization after their war for independence and it has served them well.

There's a of irony in switching from revolutionary to government, but for the Ukraine to be stable it needs a monopoly on force within its borders and it certainly can't allow for arms to come into the hands of separatists or Russians sent in from across the border to stir up trouble.
 
The real sticking point here is how determined will Kiev prove in disarming pro-Maidan forces compared to anti-Maidan forces or how determined they will be in general on the matter. It really depends on how they intend to enforce it. Local security may not be willing to raid certain groups who have guns due to sympathetic attitudes. One concern is that the emerging National Guard, likely to be stacked with a large number of pro-Maidan fighters, would be deployed to disarm anti-Maidan forces in the east and south. At that point you see a serious risk of this descending slowly into civil war.
 
Homeland Security to Purchase 141,000 Rounds of Sniper Ammo - Fox Nation

You show me a link that show private gun ownership at an all time high? (since you started this discussion)

60% more guns in USA since 1994, more guns than people in USA

gun ownership and the number of privately owned guns rose to all-time highs

And if you must cite fox news, at least cite a concurrent source as well. Fox News credibility is questionable at best.... And here, I did the work for you:

Govt Stockingpiling Weapon Ammo ... At least they are under investigation for it
 
That would be the most absolutely stupid thing they could do. A neo-fascist government calling for the disarmament of the people in a consolidation of power.

Nein, nyet, non, and again, NO!
 
That's the tendency of a population worried about losing it's ability to counter tyranny. If you have been keeping up, the agencies of the FedGov are also 'hoarding' ammunition and weaponry at an all time high. Hmm, 'cause/effect'? The hyperbole crap is really uncalled for.

The CON crap about the Gubmint hoarding ammo has been debunked repeatedly and yet there are the stubborn few who still try and sell that crap sandwich... :roll:

The other crap sandwich is firearm ownership counters tyranny... to hear the same folks rant about the gubmint- tyranny has been happening for decades now and for sure since President Obama took office and yet no action has been taken... :doh

Private ownership of firearms doesn't prevent tyranny to use the hyperbole the Radical right CONs love to spout... :peace
 
60% more guns in USA since 1994, more guns than people in USA

gun ownership and the number of privately owned guns rose to all-time highs

And if you must cite fox news, at least cite a concurrent source as well. Fox News credibility is questionable at best.... And here, I did the work for you:

Govt Stockingpiling Weapon Ammo ... At least they are under investigation for it

BS!

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/u...is-down-survey-shows.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Not that I completely dismiss the reporting of the Russian Times but, they are considered 'alternative'.
 
The CON crap about the Gubmint hoarding ammo has been debunked repeatedly and yet there are the stubborn few who still try and sell that crap sandwich... :roll:

The other crap sandwich is firearm ownership counters tyranny... to hear the same folks rant about the gubmint- tyranny has been happening for decades now and for sure since President Obama took office and yet no action has been taken... :doh

Private ownership of firearms doesn't prevent tyranny to use the hyperbole the Radical right CONs love to spout... :peace

No, it hasn't been debunked at all.

If this country's citizenry were void of guns, how much further do you think the FedGov would push their dominance?

That's what I refer to as 'counter'.
 
No, it hasn't been debunked at all.

If this country's citizenry were void of guns, how much further do you think the FedGov would push their dominance?

That's what I refer to as 'counter'.

The Federal Government doesn't give two ****s about your gun, let me repeat that "THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOESN"T CARE ABOUT YOUR GUNS." Do you really think that because a bunch of folks having pistols and AR-15s stashed at home that it will influence the kind of laws the Federal government passes and enforces?

Seriously?

Can you name an example of this happening?
 
Incredible. Nuclear disarmament causes Ukraine to be exposed to invasion and conquest - for which now there is an invading army occupying part of their country.

Now the demand of those same powers that tricked Ukraine into exposing itself by getting rid of their nuclear arsenal for the apparent purpose of helping Russia conquer Ukraine, now pressuring the Ukraine to totally disarm to allow Russia to roll over all of Ukraine with no opposition whatsoever.

Apparently, Ukraine has the most gullible and stupid leaders on earth. They should be handing out weapons advising "get ready to kill Russians if it comes to it."

Russia has no reason to fear the uniformed Ukraine military. The only thing to fear are armed citizens and citizen's militia.

A Ukraine citizen with a scoped hunting rifle is more danger to Russians than a Ukraine tank. The Ukraine government should be advising their military to prepare to remove their uniforms and act as civilian freedom fighters, dispersing light arms and explosives as diversely as possible.

My conclusion is the Ukraine government is preparing to surrender to Russia having been successfully tricked by the USA - calling it "democracy."

Do you live in a cave? The Russians are still the largest ethnic group in Ukraine, especially in the East and South. Who do you think they will vote for? If you were one of them, would you give up your guns? Fat chance. The Russians will be the strongest voting bloc in Ukraine. Swallow the turd and realize that no matter what, Russians will have political power in Ukraine. The new regime must be going nuts trying to figure out how to keep them away from the polls, or you can use the USA method and only allow "Billionaires" to run for office. Narrow the field to only individuals that support your Corporate agenda.
 
The Federal Government doesn't give two ****s about your gun, let me repeat that "THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOESN"T CARE ABOUT YOUR GUNS." Do you really think that because a bunch of folks having pistols and AR-15s stashed at home that it will influence the kind of laws the Federal government passes and enforces?

Seriously?

Can you name an example of this happening?

Oh you funny.
 
Oh you funny.

Whats funny is our so called bad a$$ militia. Your kind have been yelling tyranny for at least 5 years.

Obama wants to take our guns. We must be armed to fight tyranny.

Obamacare was forced on us. We must be armed to fight tyranny.

The NSA are spying on us. We must be armed to fight tyranny.

The police are out of control. We must be armed to fight tyranny.

And so on and so on.

So where's the line, it keeps moving.
When can we expect our bad a$$ militia to get off their couches, organize and fight this tyranny?
 
No, it hasn't been debunked at all. If this country's citizenry were void of guns, how much further do you think the FedGov would push their dominance? That's what I refer to as 'counter'.

Yes it has. The ammo dear sky is falling CONs refer to is a futures bid to option 'up to' at a set price over a period of years depending on the contract referred to. like many businesses, the Gubmint wants to lock a price and quantity in to ensure a better price and availability. The DOJ has a dozen armed agencies under it's umbrella and uses quite a bit of ammo in training.

The article you cited as 'proof' was written by either a fool or liar. The part I loved was the sniper round BS. The Amax bullet has all but taken over for the elderly Sierra match king used for decades. The 160 grain class of 308 bullets don't have the highest BC hunting bullets, many calibers and wieghts have higher BCs. The 168 grain Amax does a much better job than lighter bullets- with is what the X-spurt in the article tried to claim will do the job and cost less. The difference in price is a nit unless you buy import steel cased ammo. Ammo made under high quality controls using premium accuracy under a wide variety of conditions is not something you do on the cheap. :roll:

So you are OK with a 'little bit of Tyranny' so where is your line? (funny how CONs howl about a Tyrant President, a King, but their line is a bit farther out... :doh )

Odd the FedGov is always spoken of as if it is a uniform block... but I have a news flash for those who think they are keeping the FedGov from pushing their dominance... The Gubmint will continue to clean the air and water, push to reform healthcare, rights for gays and minorities, and many other things the 'patriotic' CON abhors but will not take to the streets to fight.

Nice fantasy scenario while out playing on the local one-way range though.... :mrgreen:

The citizens of the Ukraine toppled a corrupt government with firing a shot. Guess some folks just want to get rid of REAL tyranny more than others do their phantom Kings.... :peace
 
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