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Thread: Chicago Man Facing Hate Crime/Murder Charge

  1. #51
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    Re: Chicago Man Facing Hate Crime/Murder Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    I don't really think offences have to be quite as heinous as that in order to be recognised as hate crimes. All that has to be proven is that a crime was motivated by prejudice against someone because of their membership of a social group. Your two (highly extreme) examples fit this definition, but so does the crime in question, if the attacker committed the crime because Mr Tingling was black. I guess that's what the courts must decide.
    So, on the flip side, if the attacker were just a common mugger and killed her father inadvertently while taking his money, she would understand and feel better and be more accepting of losing her father because the crime was "just business", right?
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Chicago Man Facing Hate Crime/Murder Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    False. Spewing crap during a crime is not sufficient for a hate crime conviction.
    A thirteen year old student from Isaac E. Young Middle School was arrested over the weekend and charged with a hate crime by New Rochelle police following an assault earlier this month that injured a 59-year old female. . .

    Captain Kevin Kealy of the New Rochelle Police Department explained the basis for the hate crime designation.

    "While punching the victim, the youth uttered a racial epithet," said Kealy.
    Lonny Rae doesn't deny that he used a racial slur last October after seeing a black man scuffle with his wife, who like Rae is white. For uttering an ugly word in what he says was the heat of the moment as he tried to defend his wife, Idaho prosecutors are charging him with a hate crime that could land him in jail for five years.
    And from Maine, here is a guidance report on when charges should be laid:

    18. Hate Crime/Bias: A hate crime is an act of violence, threat of violence, or property damage. A bias incident is an act of hate that is not a crime. Both are incidents directed against a person, private property, or public property where the motive for the commission of the act is based on prejudice or bias against race, national or ethnic origin, gender, religion, sexual orientation, or disability. Common sense determination of whether or not an incident was a bias or hate-related offense should be based on consideration of multiple factors that may surround the incident, such as: 1) admission by the offender(s) of bias motivation; 2) obvious signs of bias, e.g., racial epithets uttered, hate graffiti; 3) the victim(s) expressing that bias motives were involved; or 4) a history of bias or hate-related offenses between students from the groups involved.

  3. #53
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    Re: Chicago Man Facing Hate Crime/Murder Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    So, on the flip side, if the attacker were just a common mugger and killed her father inadvertently while taking his money, she would understand and feel better and be more accepting of losing her father because the crime was "just business", right?
    Well, tbh I don't think she'd feel any better if her beloved father had died of a heart attack without being mugged. The feelings of the victims are not terribly relevant in deciding what to charge the assailant with. Had the girl hated her father and applauded his attacker, would that make a difference?
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  4. #54
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    Re: Chicago Man Facing Hate Crime/Murder Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Well, tbh I don't think she'd feel any better if her beloved father had died of a heart attack without being mugged. The feelings of the victims are not terribly relevant in deciding what to charge the assailant with. Had the girl hated her father and applauded his attacker, would that make a difference?
    And that's the point I'm getting at. The feelings of anybody involved, directly or indirectly, don't really matter. The only thing that might make a difference is intent for categories like 1st degree murder, 2nd degree murder, and so on, and we already have penalties for those. Otherwise, dead is dead, maimed is maimed, and robbed is robbed. It simply doesn't matter the inner motivations.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  5. #55
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    Re: Chicago Man Facing Hate Crime/Murder Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Being a victim of a hate crime and not having the prosecutor charge the perp with a hate crime for his hate-crime attack on you is a pretty hollow honor.

    I'm always eager to learn new things. You made a definitive statement that middle-aged, hetero, white males have been victims of hate crimes. This surely indicates that you have actually know this to be true. Would you please link up some evidence in support of your position.
    There have been hate crime convictions for crimes against middle-aged hetero white males.

  6. #56
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    Re: Chicago Man Facing Hate Crime/Murder Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    And from Maine, here is a guidance report on when charges should be laid:
    While it can be a red flag, racial epitaphs at the crime are not sufficient in and of themselves.

  7. #57
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    Re: Chicago Man Facing Hate Crime/Murder Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    While it can be a red flag, racial epitaphs at the crime are not sufficient in and of themselves.
    This is hilarious. I linked you to two cases in which exactly what you said doesn't happen is the basis for the charge and you simply wish that evidence away.

  8. #58
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    Re: Chicago Man Facing Hate Crime/Murder Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    This is hilarious. I linked you to two cases in which exactly what you said doesn't happen is the basis for the charge and you simply wish that evidence away.
    That's full of crap. One there has not been a conviction and the other merely listed the epitaphs as a factor.

    Actually, neither of your "examples" are convictions, they're basically press conferences. I could gather press conferences claiming virtually anything.

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    Re: Chicago Man Facing Hate Crime/Murder Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinefire View Post
    Who in this government dictates who we chose to love and hate. Set the guy free.



    Whether this guy goes free or to prison will be decided by a court of law, not by what someone on the internet thinks should happen.

    Don't take my word for this, just wait and see what happens.

  10. #60
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    Re: Chicago Man Facing Hate Crime/Murder Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    Murder, hate crime charges in death of man who died protecting daughter - chicagotribune.com

    I would've thought this type of harassment no longer existed.
    I don't see the hate crime here. . Yeah the man used some racial terms. But the fact that Firek was making suggestive gestures, including openly staring and grinning at the victims daughter who one would presume to be black also would indicate to me that he has no problem with blacks. It is also apparent to me that Firek did not intentionally kill the victim as he would have no idea that the guy had a pacemaker which apparently malfunctioned due to the fight. At least I'm assuming it malfunctioned due to the fight and that was the cause of the death. The article wasn't quite clear on how exactly the victim died since apparently he did walk away from the fight. I would have charged the guy with involuntary manslaughter, but not murder or as a hate crime.
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