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Thread: Chicago Man Facing Hate Crime/Murder Charge

  1. #21
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    Re: Chicago Man Facing Hate Crime/Murder Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinefire View Post
    Who in this government dictates who we chose to love and hate. Set the guy free.
    Don't worry Rhinefire. You are free to hate as much as you want to. You just aren't free to kill someone because of it.
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
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    Re: Chicago Man Facing Hate Crime/Murder Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    No, the actions are inherently different. One is killing in aggression, the other is not.

    You don't need to establish "motive" for a killing in self-defense; that is not a crime.
    The intent in self defense is self defense. The intent in murder is murder.

    The motive in stealing and robbing is property. The motive in hate crimes is to strike fear in the target population.

    Semantic games will not save you from the obvious.

    Intent and motive matters. Pretending it does not is stupid.

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    Re: Chicago Man Facing Hate Crime/Murder Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    "Hate crime" is thought crime.

    His punishment should be no different than anyone else who walked up to some random dude and punched them, causing their death... aggressive, lethal violence... the punishment should be severe regardless.

    "Hate crime." Feh.
    No it isn't. He can hate blacks all he wants but if he beats one to death while calling him a "fvcking nigger" he's turned his hate into a crime. He can (and of course will) deny the racial motivation but his words at the time betray him.
    "I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid people. I meant that stupid people are generally Conservatives."
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    Re: Chicago Man Facing Hate Crime/Murder Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    No it isn't. He can hate blacks all he wants but if he beats one to death while calling him a "fvcking nigger" he's turned his hate into a crime.
    False. Spewing crap during a crime is not sufficient for a hate crime conviction.

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    Re: Chicago Man Facing Hate Crime/Murder Charge

    The difference in a hate crime is it is a crime against a group of people, not just a single person. The way I understand it is I can beat you up simply because you are black, but when I or my group instill fear in others is when it becomes a hate crime.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    No it isn't. He can hate blacks all he wants but if he beats one to death while calling him a "fvcking nigger" he's turned his hate into a crime. He can (and of course will) deny the racial motivation but his words at the time betray him.
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

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    Re: Chicago Man Facing Hate Crime/Murder Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    The intent in self defense is self defense. The intent in murder is murder.
    Intent (or not) is not the same thing as motive.

    "Motive" is why the crime is taking place. You have to establish that as part of your theory of the crime. Motive is about detective work. It demonstrates that the accused had a reason for what he did. Failing to establish that the accused had a motive makes the prosecutor have a more difficult job.

    "Intent" is simply whether or not the action was deliberate or accidental.

    Not knowing that these two elements are different something something special olympics of vocabulary.

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    Re: Chicago Man Facing Hate Crime/Murder Charge

    Hate Crime:

    criminal offense against a person or property motivated in whole or in part by an offender’s bias against a race, religion, disability, ethnic origin or sexual orientation.” Hate itself is not a crime—and the FBI is mindful of protecting freedom of speech and other civil liberties.

    FBI — Overview
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
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    Re: Chicago Man Facing Hate Crime/Murder Charge

    I guess it could be then.
    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    Hate Crime:

    criminal offense against a person or property motivated in whole or in part by an offender’s bias against a race, religion, disability, ethnic origin or sexual orientation.” Hate itself is not a crime—and the FBI is mindful of protecting freedom of speech and other civil liberties.

    FBI — Overview
    God Bless the Marine Corps.

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    Re: Chicago Man Facing Hate Crime/Murder Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    No it isn't. He can hate blacks all he wants but if he beats one to death while calling him a "fvcking nigger" he's turned his hate into a crime.
    Beating someone to death in aggression for any reason is already criminal, as it should be.

    If you want to punish him more severely than anyone else who beats someone to death in aggression for his speech or his thoughts, then yes, you want to punish someone specifically for their expression and thought, and that is wrong.

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    Re: Chicago Man Facing Hate Crime/Murder Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Michael Tingling was a large dude. I imagine the whole situation was scary due to the size of the two men. I have to imagine the assailant was also a large man but I haven't seen his picture.
    I'm not sure I understand your point.
    "Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers" - Voltaire
    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self" -Hemingway

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