Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 104

Thread: Chicago Man Facing Hate Crime/Murder Charge

  1. #11
    global liberation

    ecofarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Miami
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:50 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    66,400

    Re: Chicago Man Facing Hate Crime/Murder Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinefire View Post
    Who in this government dictates who we chose to love and hate. Set the guy free.
    Hate crime in the US has nothing to do with whom one hates. It's to do with organized terrorism.

    You see, organized terrorism is much more harmful to society than random property crimes and, thus, must be acknowledged and addressed appropriately.

  2. #12
    global liberation

    ecofarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Miami
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:50 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    66,400

    Re: Chicago Man Facing Hate Crime/Murder Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by rjay View Post
    Calling someone racially insensitive names while you are fighting them doesn't, it seems to me, quite bring you into hate-crime territory.
    Legally it doesn't, either. Spewing crap during the crime does not prove motive.

  3. #13
    Educator

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Last Seen
    09-07-14 @ 05:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    1,037

    Re: Chicago Man Facing Hate Crime/Murder Charge

    For it to be a hate crime Firek would have had to deliberately target the victim because here or she was a member of a protected class.

    There are two errors in charging:

    1. This isn't a hate crime.

    2. Murder requires prior planning. Firek punched the guy and he died. That's manslaughter.

  4. #14
    Struggler
    JayDubya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Last Seen
    11-09-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    17,181

    Re: Chicago Man Facing Hate Crime/Murder Charge

    "Hate crime" is thought crime.

    His punishment should be no different than anyone else who walked up to some random dude and punched them, causing their death... aggressive, lethal violence... the punishment should be severe regardless.

    "Hate crime." Feh.

  5. #15
    global liberation

    ecofarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Miami
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:50 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    66,400

    Re: Chicago Man Facing Hate Crime/Murder Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by StringBean View Post
    For it to be a hate crime Firek would have had to deliberately target the victim because here or she was a member of a protected class.
    There are no protected classes under US hate crime law. Middle-aged, hetero, white males have been victims of hate crimes.

    The requirement for hate crime in the US is: No other motive than to strike fear in the target population. Such motive is generally established by the accused being a member of or possessing propaganda from a known hate group targeting the victim's group.

  6. #16
    global liberation

    ecofarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Miami
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:50 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    66,400

    Re: Chicago Man Facing Hate Crime/Murder Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    "Hate crime" is thought crime.

    It's no more a thought crime than 1st degree murder. It's a matter of motive.

    By your "logic" all killings would be prosecuted as manslaughter.

    Your inability to grasp the importance of motive is sad. This isn't the special olympics of law, take the ignorance elsewhere.

  7. #17
    Struggler
    JayDubya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Last Seen
    11-09-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    17,181

    Re: Chicago Man Facing Hate Crime/Murder Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    It's no more a thought crime than 1st degree murder. It's a matter of motive.

    By your "logic" all killings would be prosecuted as manslaughter.
    Intent (or not) is not the same thing as motive. Premeditation (or not) is not the same thing as motive.

    Motive is an element of crime theory - it should never be in and of itself criminalized, because that is absolutely criminalizing thoughts the state doesn't like.

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Your inability to grasp the importance of motive is sad. This isn't the special olympics of law, take the ignorance elsewhere.
    My, how inept. Thanks, I'll take your oh-so civil suggestion that I'm "retarded" as your concession.
    Last edited by JayDubya; 03-21-14 at 01:17 PM.

  8. #18
    global liberation

    ecofarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Miami
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:50 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    66,400

    Re: Chicago Man Facing Hate Crime/Murder Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    Intent (or not) is not the same thing as motive. Premeditation (or not) is not the same thing as motive.
    Sure it is.

    The difference between 1st degree murder and justified self defense is motive.

    Ignoring motive, intent and such is for disabled people.

  9. #19
    Struggler
    JayDubya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Last Seen
    11-09-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    17,181

    Re: Chicago Man Facing Hate Crime/Murder Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Sure it is.

    The difference between 1st degree murder and justified self defense is motive.
    No, the actions are inherently different. One is killing in aggression, the other is not.

    You don't need to establish "motive" for a killing in self-defense; that is not a crime.

  10. #20
    Question authority
    Grand Mal's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    on an island off the left coast of Canada
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:58 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    16,492
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Chicago Man Facing Hate Crime/Murder Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinefire View Post
    Who in this government dictates who we chose to love and hate. Set the guy free.
    The guy beat someone to death and you want to set him free?
    "I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid people. I meant that stupid people are generally Conservatives."
    -John Stuart Mill-

Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •