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US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

MildSteel

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US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting - The Washington Post

UNITED NATIONS — Russia and the United States exchanged threats Wednesday at a tense U.N. Security Council meeting over the Ukraine crisis, with Moscow’s envoy warning that the U.S. ambassador’s “insults” are jeopardizing Moscow’s willingness to cooperate with Washington on other diplomatic matters.

It was the council’s eighth meeting in less than three weeks on Ukraine, a show of determination by Western powers to highlight Russia’s diplomatic isolation over the Crimean Peninsula — even if the council is powerless to act because of Moscow’s veto power as a permanent council member.
.....

At the council, Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin was once again alone in defending his country’s actions in Crimea.

He began his speech by celebrating the treaty signed a day earlier by Russian President Vladimir Putin declaring Crimea part of Russia, saying it honored the will of the Crimean people and complied with international law.

“Yesterday, something truly historic happened,” Churkin declared. “A historic injustice has been righted.”

U.S. Ambassador Samantha Power said the United States rejects “Russia’s military intervention and land grab in Crimea.”

She warned that the U.S. and its allies, who imposed sanctions on Russia two days ago, “are prepared to take additional steps if Russian aggression or Russian provocations continue.”

Power also compared Russia’s takeover of Crimea to theft. “A thief can steal property, but that does not confer the right of ownership on the thief,” she said.

The Russian ambassador shot back: “It is simply unacceptable to listen to these insults addressed to our country.”

He added, “If the delegation of the United States of America expects our cooperation in the Security Council on other issues, then Mrs. Power must understand this quite clearly.” By then, Power had left the meeting to her deputy.

Thus ends the "new thinking" of Gorbachev. In his speech to a joint session of parliament, Putin said that Ukraine was the line that the US should not have crossed.

If these people are not careful, this may go down in history as the beginning of WWIII
 
I hope this gets resolved without conflict, the Russian armed forces are powerful too.
 
US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting - The Washington Post



Thus ends the "new thinking" of Gorbachev. In his speech to a joint session of parliament, Putin said that Ukraine was the line that the US should not have crossed.

If these people are not careful, this may go down in history as the beginning of WWIII
(emphasis added by me)

Unfortunately, you are correct on both points.

This is probably the first of many examples of Russia imposing its will on western Europe in an attempt to rebuild the Soviet Union. The difference though is that this time, NATO has already absorbed many of the previous Warsaw Pact nations.

Map of previous Warsaw Pact nations:
NATO_Warsaw_Pact.svg


Current NATO map showing designations of each nation. Notice the proximity to Russia, with only Belarus, Ukraine and Georgia separating Russia from NATO:
27602.gif
 
Yeah.....I see as usual Powers was running her mouth. Like Susan Rice. Then after she left the room.

Russia decided to make another Concern of theirs to be noted. Funny thing about Russia.....especially when they are on the World Stage and say, Oh Btw We are concerned about so and so, seems the Entire World listens.



Russia signaled concern on Wednesday at Estonia's treatment of its large ethnic Russian minority, comparing language policy in the Baltic state with what it said was a call in Ukraine to prevent the use of Russian.

Russia has defended its annexation of Ukraine's Crimea peninsula by arguing it has the right to protect Russian-speakers outside its borders, so the reference to linguistic tensions in another former Soviet republic comes at a highly sensitive moment.

Russia fully supported the protection of the rights of linguistic minorities, a Moscow diplomat told the United Nations Human Rights Council in Geneva, according to a summary of the session issued by the U.N.'s information department.

"Language should not be used to segregate and isolate groups," the diplomat was reported as saying. Russia was "concerned by steps taken in this regard in Estonia as well as in Ukraine," the Moscow envoy was said to have added.

But amid the growing Crimea crisis, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania - which like Ukraine were all parts of the old Soviet Union - have expressed growing apprehension over Moscow's intentions.

U.S. Vice President Joe Biden is currently in the Lithuanian capital Vilnius as part of a trip to reassure the three countries, all European Union and NATO members, of Washington's support.

Responding, the Russian delegate said there were no violations of minority rights in Crimea and minorities were not being persecuted. The new Russian-backed government there had guaranteed protection of the Tatars.....snip~

Moscow signals concern for Russians in Estonia | Reuters

http://www.debatepolitics.com/inter...-moscow-signals-concern-russians-estonia.html
 
I hope this gets resolved without conflict, the Russian armed forces are powerful too.


Here's just one example of what NATO can field, and this is just Poland. When I saw this, it actually surprised me that Poland had such a formidable military. Add to this, all the other NATO nations, and with the sole exception of their nuclear arsenal, Russia would have a difficult time imposing its will militarily. In other words, NATO would have the ability to contain Russia. However, I truly believe that any attack on Russia's homeland would be met with an all out nuclear response, because Putin would do what no other Russian or Soviet leader would ever do... push the button and never look back. I seriously think he's that psychotic. In that way, he is a lot like many historical bad guys (and yes, Hitler for one). He seems to feel that he has a preordained destiny to be the leader of western Europe, and maybe ever then world.

Putin scares the hell out me. He may push the world into war, and blame the world for it.



EDIT: Forgot to attach the dang video... sorry for that.
 
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Here's just one example of what NATO can field, and this is just Poland. When I saw this, it actually surprised me that Poland had such a formidable military. Add to this, all the other NATO nations, and with the sole exception of their nuclear arsenal, Russia would have a difficult time imposing its will militarily. In other words, NATO would have the ability to contain Russia. However, I truly believe that any attack on Russia's homeland would be met with an all out nuclear response, because Putin would do what no other Russian or Soviet leader would ever do... push the button and never look back. I seriously think he's that psychotic. In that way, he is a lot like many historical bad guys (and yes, Hitler for one). He seems to feel that he has a preordained destiny to be the leader of western Europe, and maybe ever then world.

Putin scares the hell out me. He may push the world into war, and blame the world for it.



Heya Beaudreaux. :2wave: One can see why. Especially when he actually does believe that we believe we are the chosen ones.


Russian President Vladimir Putin accused the United States on Monday of being guided in its foreign policy not by international law but by the "rule of the gun."

"Our Western partners headed by the United States prefer not to be guided by international law in their practical policies, but by the rule of the gun,"

"They have come to believe in their exceptionalism and their sense of being the chosen ones. That they can decide the destinies of the world, that it is only them who can be right.".....snip~

Putin says U.S. guided by 'the rule of the gun' in foreign policy | Reuters

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...-says-u-s-guided-rule-gun-foreign-policy.html
 
Heya Beaudreaux. :2wave: One can see why. Especially when he actually does believe that we believe we are the chosen ones.


Russian President Vladimir Putin accused the United States on Monday of being guided in its foreign policy not by international law but by the "rule of the gun."

"Our Western partners headed by the United States prefer not to be guided by international law in their practical policies, but by the rule of the gun,"

"They have come to believe in their exceptionalism and their sense of being the chosen ones. That they can decide the destinies of the world, that it is only them who can be right.".....snip~

Putin says U.S. guided by 'the rule of the gun' in foreign policy | Reuters

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...-says-u-s-guided-rule-gun-foreign-policy.html

I forgot to attach the video to the post your responded to. I fixed it. Check it out.

And yeah, Putin is a master of manipulation, just as most conquerors across history have been.
 
(emphasis added by me)

Unfortunately, you are correct on both points.

This is probably the first of many examples of Russia imposing its will on western Europe in an attempt to rebuild the Soviet Union. The difference though is that this time, NATO has already absorbed many of the previous Warsaw Pact nations.
That's the problem. Assurances were made to Russia by the US and western Europe when Germany reunited that NATO would not move any further east.
 
Here's just one example of what NATO can field, and this is just Poland. When I saw this, it actually surprised me that Poland had such a formidable military. Add to this, all the other NATO nations, and with the sole exception of their nuclear arsenal, Russia would have a difficult time imposing its will militarily. In other words, NATO would have the ability to contain Russia. However, I truly believe that any attack on Russia's homeland would be met with an all out nuclear response, because Putin would do what no other Russian or Soviet leader would ever do... push the button and never look back. I seriously think he's that psychotic. In that way, he is a lot like many historical bad guys (and yes, Hitler for one). He seems to feel that he has a preordained destiny to be the leader of western Europe, and maybe ever then world.

Putin scares the hell out me. He may push the world into war, and blame the world for it.



EDIT: Forgot to attach the dang video... sorry for that.

I noticed a lot of Polands fighter jets in that video are Russian made.
 
US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting - The Washington Post



Thus ends the "new thinking" of Gorbachev. In his speech to a joint session of parliament, Putin said that Ukraine was the line that the US should not have crossed.

If these people are not careful, this may go down in history as the beginning of WWIII

I'm sick of the calls for the USA to run with its tail between its legs to talk of WWIII.

Putin understands the USA is in the coward's mode, so can act as if Russia does not fear war with the USA, while the USA is terrified of war with Russia.

When did the USA become such cowards? We pricked with Russia and they pricked with us the entire Cold War and Russia was vastly more powerful and influential then.

The escalation Russia threatens otherwise in diplomatic matters is real, but it is an escalation that we match it we win it. We hold most the cards, not Russia.
 
Here's just one example of what NATO can field, and this is just Poland. When I saw this, it actually surprised me that Poland had such a formidable military. Add to this, all the other NATO nations, and with the sole exception of their nuclear arsenal, Russia would have a difficult time imposing its will militarily. In other words, NATO would have the ability to contain Russia. However, I truly believe that any attack on Russia's homeland would be met with an all out nuclear response, because Putin would do what no other Russian or Soviet leader would ever do... push the button and never look back. I seriously think he's that psychotic. In that way, he is a lot like many historical bad guys (and yes, Hitler for one). He seems to feel that he has a preordained destiny to be the leader of western Europe, and maybe ever then world.

Putin scares the hell out me. He may push the world into war, and blame the world for it.



EDIT: Forgot to attach the dang video... sorry for that.


Ukraine had the potential to be a major offset to Russian power in the future until they lost Crimea. Of course, before they gave up their huge nuclear arsenal Ukraine could never have been invaded.

Lost of Crimea reduces Ukraine to the permanent status of beggars to Russia. Lose of Crimea to Russia equates to what happened to Mexico when they lost Texas (which then included New Mexico and Oklahoma.) The Ukraine is now a defeated subservient nation to Russia - whether or not Russia invaded or not. Stealing Ukraine's oil and gas potentials including offshore has left Ukraine with a future of Russian dependency and economic ruin.

It was not just Crimea that was defeated, but all of Ukraine. So much for Ukraine believing the USA when they gave up their nuclear weapons. The USA has betrayed nations before, but I can not think of a worse betrayal of another country in USA history. Can you think of one the USA betrayed and lied to worse?

Next is rapid nuclear weapons proliferation around the world.
 
I noticed a lot of Polands fighter jets in that video are Russian made.
Without nuclear weapons Russia could steam roll over Poland. Poland's military is only for small bordering counties.
Russia could roll across every non-nuclear power in East and West Europe easily if it wanted to. All are relying on the US for defense. A BIG mistake on their part.
 
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A likely future conflict area is Kazakhstan. It is a massive collection of natural resources on Russia's Southern border worth trillions to Russia. Uzbekistan also likely of very high conquest interests of Russia.
 
That's the problem. Assurances were made to Russia by the US and western Europe when Germany reunited that NATO would not move any further east.

The violation of the treaty with Ukraine by Russia should be considered as all treaties are irrelevant and off the table.
 
I noticed a lot of Polands fighter jets in that video are Russian made.

They are. They also have German, Swedish and US equipment. The good thing about the Russian equipment, it's easy to remanufacture parts where US equipment is not.
 
LOL, this thread is littered with paranoia and fear-mongering. So, I do not think Ukraine will in any way cause World War III. The possibilities exist, of course, but the risk factors are known too well by all parties involved for there to be any risk of an accidental escalation. More importantly, relations are not so frayed that either side would feel like they could go to war with the other. Even more importantly, Putin is not some deranged lunatic. That kind of thinking is what creates the war fervor in the first place. He is not interested in a third world war and especially not a nuclear war. Russia has made similar moves to this in the past, always with some sort of defensible cause, and they have not gone on some widespread rampage afterwards.

I am not saying that there will not be any world war, but not yet and probably not while Putin is in power. Russia is not gonna make some dumb move like going after one of the Baltic states given NATO membership. Russia will continue to push the GUAM (Georgia, Ukraine, Azerbaijan, and Moldova) nations in the hopes of blocking every last one's efforts to be meaningfully tied into the Atlantic alliance. Beyond that, it will shore up wider alliances. Should events continue along their current path then maybe Moscow will get a very significant defection.
 
That's the problem. Assurances were made to Russia by the US and western Europe when Germany reunited that NATO would not move any further east.

No such assurances were made. There was talk of Russia joining. Russia said great powers don't join alliances they make them.
 
I'm sick of the calls for the USA to run with its tail between its legs to talk of WWIII.

Putin understands the USA is in the coward's mode, so can act as if Russia does not fear war with the USA, while the USA is terrified of war with Russia.

When did the USA become such cowards? We pricked with Russia and they pricked with us the entire Cold War and Russia was vastly more powerful and influential then.

The escalation Russia threatens otherwise in diplomatic matters is real, but it is an escalation that we match it we win it. We hold most the cards, not Russia.

I am sorry, but what you are putting forward here is not only incorrect, but it is unhelpful emotional rhetoric. First of all no one is suggesting that the US "run with it's tail between it's legs." However, it is true that if the situation is allowed to deteriorate the world could find itself face with a very nasty war that would make the two previous world wars look child's play.

The truth is that, contrary to what you are putting forward, Putin does not see the USA as cowards. Quite the contrary. He sees that the US, through NATO, is trying to push it's way right up to Russia's borders through it's recent activity in Ukraine. Putin is a Russian nationalist. What he was faced with in Ukraine is the strong possibility of seeing NATO military might being placed right alongside the seat of Russia's naval power at Sevastopol. No Russian national would stand for that. Therefore he responded in such a strong way. It was a very big strategic blunder to have pushed all the way to Ukraine in this way.

That said, I do believe that the US has the upper hand here. But it needs to be played carefully and properly. Knee jerk, emotional responses will not be helpful.
 
LOL, this thread is littered with paranoia and fear-mongering. So, I do not think Ukraine will in any way cause World War III. The possibilities exist, of course, but the risk factors are known too well by all parties involved for there to be any risk of an accidental escalation. More importantly, relations are not so frayed that either side would feel like they could go to war with the other. Even more importantly, Putin is not some deranged lunatic. That kind of thinking is what creates the war fervor in the first place. He is not interested in a third world war and especially not a nuclear war. Russia has made similar moves to this in the past, always with some sort of defensible cause, and they have not gone on some widespread rampage afterwards.

I am not saying that there will not be any world war, but not yet and probably not while Putin is in power. Russia is not gonna make some dumb move like going after one of the Baltic states given NATO membership. Russia will continue to push the GUAM (Georgia, Ukraine, Azerbaijan, and Moldova) nations in the hopes of blocking every last one's efforts to be meaningfully tied into the Atlantic alliance. Beyond that, it will shore up wider alliances. Should events continue along their current path then maybe Moscow will get a very significant defection.

First of all, I agree on the paranoia and fearing mongering stuff.

I think you are also correct that WWIII is unlikely as a DIRECT result of this. However, if tensions are not allowed to ease, this could be the trigger that results in the two sides implementing highly adversarial foreign policy that further deteriorates trust and increases paranoia and false apprehension with regards to intent. Thus the favorable conditions that lead finally to war would be created.
 
And, the more backing down we do, the bolder Putin will get.

No one is backing down, and no one is purposing that we back down.

You are right in the sense that we have to respond in a way that let's Putin know that there will be consequences for what happened with Crimea. But we have to understand at the same time, why he did it. At the end of the day, there is no substantial change in terms of the power dynamics on a global level as a result of this. Therefore our response should be calibrated with that in mind.
 
No one is backing down, and no one is purposing that we back down.

You are right in the sense that we have to respond in a way that let's Putin know that there will be consequences for what happened with Crimea. But we have to understand at the same time, why he did it. At the end of the day, there is no substantial change in terms of the power dynamics on a global level as a result of this. Therefore our response should be calibrated with that in mind.

Obama's backing down every chance he gets.
 
And, the more backing down we do, the bolder Putin will get.

I would think very true.

It's remarkable to view how many see Russia as a power player on the World Stage. Outside of energy, Russia is an also ran. As a country, they amount to very little. This is all bluster by Putin, with nothing of substance to back up his play, other than some belief Russia today should be viewed in the same light as the USSR of yesterday.
 
I would think very true.

It's remarkable to view how many see Russia as a power player on the World Stage. Outside of energy, Russia is an also ran. As a country, they amount to very little. This is all bluster by Putin, with nothing of substance to back up his play, other than some belief Russia today should be viewed in the same light as the USSR of yesterday.

I don't discount the threats of any country with nukes.
 
I don't discount the threats of any country with nukes.

Potentially becoming a new source for glass beads removes any threat from nukes. Russia has little to bargain with, other than Putin's effort to convince people it's still the USSR.
 
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