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Thread: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    our Bonobo cousins are laughing at us and having sex while we meet and discuss new ways to **** up the world over bull****.
    That is sad. Part of the problem is that we get caught up and trapped by dangerous rhetoric and propaganda. Then no side can back down because no one can look weak. But, that's the way we do it.

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Engineering the fall of a government in response to it's accepting a counter offer from Russia, right on a vulnerable Russia border, was over aggressive behavior on the part of the Assistant Secretary of State of the United States, Victoria Nuland.
    It sounds like we should be afraid of Russia, according to you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It sounds like we should be afraid of Russia, according to you.
    No, what is to be feared is dangerous distorted propaganda that is created to compensate for strategic blunders. The US made big strategic blunder in the Ukraine and it is trying to compensate for it by demonizing Putin. It's not good.

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    No, what is to be feared is dangerous distorted propaganda that is created to compensate for strategic blunders. The US made big strategic blunder in the Ukraine and it is trying to compensate for it by demonizing Putin. It's not good.
    I'd suggest the blunders were made before Ukraine - specifically years before with the "reset" of Russia, and letting Russia be the keystone to Syria and Iran. Ukraine uncovered those other blunders and showed how cornered the US became. Now all we can do is shout bad language from the sidelines since we've been marginalized internationally.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I'd suggest the blunders were made before Ukraine - specifically years before with the "reset" of Russia, and letting Russia be the keystone to Syria and Iran. Ukraine uncovered those other blunders and showed how cornered the US became. Now all we can do is shout bad language from the sidelines since we've been marginalized internationally.
    Now that's interesting. There may be some truth to that, but I'm not sure. Could you please elaborate more so I know exactly what you are talking about?

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Now that's interesting. There may be some truth to that, but I'm not sure. Could you please elaborate more so I know exactly what you are talking about?
    In the past 5 years or so, Obama and the State Department have gone out of their way to try and "reset" the American relationship with Medvedev and later with Putin himself. In the past 18 months or so, the US has had two specific international incidents in which the WH felt America needs to be involved. First, the Syrian civil war on the pretext that Syria was using chemical weapons on their own people and the various video reports of dying women and children from what was thought to have been Sarin Gas. US intervention wasn't welcomed and Russia has had an interest in keeping Syria intact. Russia took the lead on negotiations backed by the US. Next we had the escalation with Iran and their alleged nuclear weapons program. Russian ties to Iran are fairly well known, and the US and Israel have a stake at not letting Iran create nuclear weapons as they already have a delivery system with their Safir rocket. Russia again was the lead mediator with Iran on talks..

    Then we get Ukraine and Crimea occurring right after (or during the Sochi Olympics). The WH was caught flat footed, with no real answer to a move by Russia to intercede in Crimea. The reset was over, and now Syria and Iran are held in the balance while Putin does what he wants to do. I can only conclude Putin dangled two things he knew the WH wanted (Syria and Iran) then sends forces to Crimea and now is using both of those situations to their advantage. The reset was a ruse. Now the US and Russia are disagreeing on how to move forward with Syria, and the Iran negotiations are now being used as a pressure point with the US.

    It's clear the US was rope-a-doped by Russia and this was planned out well before any troops were moved onto the border of Ukraine.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    In the past 5 years or so, Obama and the State Department have gone out of their way to try and "reset" the American relationship with Medvedev and later with Putin himself. In the past 18 months or so, the US has had two specific international incidents in which the WH felt America needs to be involved. First, the Syrian civil war on the pretext that Syria was using chemical weapons on their own people and the various video reports of dying women and children from what was thought to have been Sarin Gas. US intervention wasn't welcomed and Russia has had an interest in keeping Syria intact. Russia took the lead on negotiations backed by the US. Next we had the escalation with Iran and their alleged nuclear weapons program. Russian ties to Iran are fairly well known, and the US and Israel have a stake at not letting Iran create nuclear weapons as they already have a delivery system with their Safir rocket. Russia again was the lead mediator with Iran on talks..

    Then we get Ukraine and Crimea occurring right after (or during the Sochi Olympics). The WH was caught flat footed, with no real answer to a move by Russia to intercede in Crimea. The reset was over, and now Syria and Iran are held in the balance while Putin does what he wants to do. I can only conclude Putin dangled two things he knew the WH wanted (Syria and Iran) then sends forces to Crimea and now is using both of those situations to their advantage. The reset was a ruse. Now the US and Russia are disagreeing on how to move forward with Syria, and the Iran negotiations are now being used as a pressure point with the US.

    It's clear the US was rope-a-doped by Russia and this was planned out well before any troops were moved onto the border of Ukraine.
    That's very interesting. However I really don't think Putin anticipated what would happen in Ukraine with the fall of the government. That's what I think is weak about your theory. If you could provide evidence to back that up however, that would be very very interesting and it would significantly change the calculus of the situation.

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    That's very interesting. However I really don't think Putin anticipated what would happen in Ukraine with the fall of the government. That's what I think is weak about your theory. If you could provide evidence to back that up however, that would be very very interesting and it would significantly change the calculus of the situation.
    Why not? He works a deal with the Crimea PM. Putin gathers his military forces still while Sochi is going on. As soon as it's done, Crimea cries to mother russia for help. Putin, ready to go, sends his troops in. He knows he has two trump cards to hold the US at bay and maybe even knows that the US won't do anything. He walks in to Crimea, puts a noose around the country, a gun in their back and says to his new buddies --- you're going to vote to secede from Ukraine and be honest (while they push the gun in their backs) and vote with your best interest at heart.

    What way do you think they'd vote with Russian military all over the place?

    If you want evidence you go look for it. I'm just telling you how I see it happening - my job isn't to "sell" you on my views... you make up your own mind.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    What doesn't fit about this whole thing is that anybody with any sense and knows something about it knows that Russia cannot afford to lose that naval base at Sevastopol. Knowing this, why would the Obama administration make such a hard move on Ukraine at this point, knowing full well that if Russia decided to make this move, little could be done about it. It just doesn't make any sense.

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    What doesn't fit about this whole thing is that anybody with any sense and knows something about it knows that Russia cannot afford to lose that naval base at Sevastopol. Knowing this, why would the Obama administration make such a hard move on Ukraine at this point, knowing full well that if Russia decided to make this move, little could be done about it. It just doesn't make any sense.
    Obama's not making a hard move.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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