Page 4 of 19 FirstFirst ... 2345614 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 188

Thread: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

  1. #31
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,402

    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I think that it was being overly aggressive with our recent moves in Ukraine that got us to this point. So I don't agree with you.
    Overly aggressive?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  2. #32
    Sage
    Sherman123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northeast US
    Last Seen
    11-23-17 @ 11:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,774

    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    While I agree that we are nowhere close to a military confrontation with Russia, I do think that if tensions are not allowed to ease, both sides could start to implement foreign policy in a way that deteriorates trust and increases paranoia, thus creating the environment in which a war could be started. Therefore both sides should proceed with caution. The displays at that meeting were not a good sign at all.
    Only one side is proceeding with caution, the other has been fomenting violence in a neighboring state and has launched a full scale invasion of its territory and proceeded to annex it within the space of a week. The other side has completely abandoned the field. Deterrence is inherently risky but you undertake it in the hope of heading off worse outcomes. If you aren't willing to play that necessary game then you've already lost.

    We have an determined autocracy which seeks to buttress its influence, regain territory, and increase its relative strength when arrayed against the West. Firm steps have to be taken to reinforce faith in the US security guarantee, to create a limit to the maximum Russian advance, and coordinate resistance. Otherwise we'll continue to see Russia carve out influence in driblets until one day soon you'll have a re-established pro-Moscow regime in Kiev, Transnistria re-absorbed into Russia, and Russian bases on the frontier of Central Europe in western Ukraine.

    Ukraine needs to be a line in the sand and we've utterly failed to step up to the task.

  3. #33
    Sage
    Erod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    North Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:54 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    13,067

    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    What is wrong with got people? Don't you know a plane is missing?

    It's on CNN right now 24/7, and their ratings are skyrocketing. You're missing the real story.

    Now stop wasting bandwidth with this trivial nonsense.

  4. #34
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Chicago Illinois
    Last Seen
    10-14-15 @ 09:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    56,981

    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    What is wrong with got people? Don't you know a plane is missing?

    It's on CNN right now 24/7, and their ratings are skyrocketing. You're missing the real story.

    Now stop wasting bandwidth with this trivial nonsense.
    "WHAT"......


  5. #35
    Sage

    ocean515's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Southern California
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    24,705

    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    It's certainly true that Russia is not as powerful as the USSR. However, it is incorrect to say that they are not a power player on the world stage. It's a big mistake to underestimate them in that way.
    Well, in my opinion, it's a bigger mistake to estimate them in the way you suggest.

    They are not an industrial power by any stretch. They are nowhere near the military power the USSR was, and after the inevitable fall of the USSR, it turns out they weren't even the military power their propaganda suggested they were at the time.

    Short of the nuke arsenal, they don't have much, other than a leader it appears many are afraid of.

  6. #36
    Sage
    Unitedwestand13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Sunnyvale California
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:18 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    14,970

    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Well, in my opinion, it's a bigger mistake to estimate them in the way you suggest.

    They are not an industrial power by any stretch. They are nowhere near the military power the USSR was, and after the inevitable fall of the USSR, it turns out they weren't even the military power their propaganda suggested they were at the time.

    Short of the nuke arsenal, they don't have much, other than a leader it appears many are afraid of.
    There is the natural gas supply Russia has, and that is the thing being used like a knife at Europes throat
    "If you can't stand the way this place is, Take yourself to higher places!"
    Break, By Three days grace

    Hilliary Clinton/Tim Kaine 2016

  7. #37
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Last Seen
    08-18-15 @ 09:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,974

    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Overly aggressive?
    While one must admire they way in which Victoria Nuland engineered the fall of Yanukovych and installation of Yatsenyuk, it was rather aggressive and a very big strategic mistake.

  8. #38
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,402

    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    While one must admire they way in which Victoria Nuland engineered the fall of Yanukovych and installation of Yatsenyuk, it was rather aggressive and a very big strategic mistake.
    How was it aggressive?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  9. #39
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,402

    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    There is the natural gas supply Russia has, and that is the thing being used like a knife at Europes throat
    That's why it's so important for us to prevent the crazies from ruling the ME.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  10. #40
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Last Seen
    08-18-15 @ 09:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,974

    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Only one side is proceeding with caution, the other has been fomenting violence in a neighboring state and has launched a full scale invasion of its territory and proceeded to annex it within the space of a week. The other side has completely abandoned the field. Deterrence is inherently risky but you undertake it in the hope of heading off worse outcomes. If you aren't willing to play that necessary game then you've already lost.

    We have an determined autocracy which seeks to buttress its influence, regain territory, and increase its relative strength when arrayed against the West. Firm steps have to be taken to reinforce faith in the US security guarantee, to create a limit to the maximum Russian advance, and coordinate resistance. Otherwise we'll continue to see Russia carve out influence in driblets until one day soon you'll have a re-established pro-Moscow regime in Kiev, Transnistria re-absorbed into Russia, and Russian bases on the frontier of Central Europe in western Ukraine.

    Ukraine needs to be a line in the sand and we've utterly failed to step up to the task.
    Your characterization here completely ignores that although Victoria Nuland displayed tactical brilliance in engineering the fall of Yanukovych, it was a reckless move that was strategic foolishness. Not only that but it completely ignores the fact that placing NATO right on a vulnerable Russian border, and indeed right alongside it's Black Sea fleet would have the effect of substantially limiting Russia's power. No power, that could help it, would allow an military alliance that was specifically designed to contain it to put it into such a vulnerable position. That's why it is of no surprise that Putin responded in the way that he did, rather it was to be expected.

    Furthermore, while you are correct that Russia is trying to buttress its influence and increase it's relative strength against the West, you have completely ignored the fact that the West is trying to do the same against Russia. Again, how else do you expect them to respond? And as far as regaining territory with regards to Crimea, I doubt we would be discussing this if Nuland had not dismantled the government of Yanukovych.

    That said, you are correct when you say we have to make it absolutely clear that we will stand up to any further Russian advances. But the truth is that the preponderance of the blame for this incident lies with the US. It was a big mistake.

Page 4 of 19 FirstFirst ... 2345614 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •