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Thread: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Here's just one example of what NATO can field, and this is just Poland. When I saw this, it actually surprised me that Poland had such a formidable military. Add to this, all the other NATO nations, and with the sole exception of their nuclear arsenal, Russia would have a difficult time imposing its will militarily. In other words, NATO would have the ability to contain Russia. However, I truly believe that any attack on Russia's homeland would be met with an all out nuclear response, because Putin would do what no other Russian or Soviet leader would ever do... push the button and never look back. I seriously think he's that psychotic. In that way, he is a lot like many historical bad guys (and yes, Hitler for one). He seems to feel that he has a preordained destiny to be the leader of western Europe, and maybe ever then world.

    Putin scares the hell out me. He may push the world into war, and blame the world for it.



    EDIT: Forgot to attach the dang video... sorry for that.
    Ukraine had the potential to be a major offset to Russian power in the future until they lost Crimea. Of course, before they gave up their huge nuclear arsenal Ukraine could never have been invaded.

    Lost of Crimea reduces Ukraine to the permanent status of beggars to Russia. Lose of Crimea to Russia equates to what happened to Mexico when they lost Texas (which then included New Mexico and Oklahoma.) The Ukraine is now a defeated subservient nation to Russia - whether or not Russia invaded or not. Stealing Ukraine's oil and gas potentials including offshore has left Ukraine with a future of Russian dependency and economic ruin.

    It was not just Crimea that was defeated, but all of Ukraine. So much for Ukraine believing the USA when they gave up their nuclear weapons. The USA has betrayed nations before, but I can not think of a worse betrayal of another country in USA history. Can you think of one the USA betrayed and lied to worse?

    Next is rapid nuclear weapons proliferation around the world.

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by 24107 View Post
    I noticed a lot of Polands fighter jets in that video are Russian made.
    Without nuclear weapons Russia could steam roll over Poland. Poland's military is only for small bordering counties.
    Russia could roll across every non-nuclear power in East and West Europe easily if it wanted to. All are relying on the US for defense. A BIG mistake on their part.
    Last edited by joko104; 03-20-14 at 12:27 AM.

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    A likely future conflict area is Kazakhstan. It is a massive collection of natural resources on Russia's Southern border worth trillions to Russia. Uzbekistan also likely of very high conquest interests of Russia.

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by jerry7 View Post
    That's the problem. Assurances were made to Russia by the US and western Europe when Germany reunited that NATO would not move any further east.
    The violation of the treaty with Ukraine by Russia should be considered as all treaties are irrelevant and off the table.

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by 24107 View Post
    I noticed a lot of Polands fighter jets in that video are Russian made.
    They are. They also have German, Swedish and US equipment. The good thing about the Russian equipment, it's easy to remanufacture parts where US equipment is not.
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    LOL, this thread is littered with paranoia and fear-mongering. So, I do not think Ukraine will in any way cause World War III. The possibilities exist, of course, but the risk factors are known too well by all parties involved for there to be any risk of an accidental escalation. More importantly, relations are not so frayed that either side would feel like they could go to war with the other. Even more importantly, Putin is not some deranged lunatic. That kind of thinking is what creates the war fervor in the first place. He is not interested in a third world war and especially not a nuclear war. Russia has made similar moves to this in the past, always with some sort of defensible cause, and they have not gone on some widespread rampage afterwards.

    I am not saying that there will not be any world war, but not yet and probably not while Putin is in power. Russia is not gonna make some dumb move like going after one of the Baltic states given NATO membership. Russia will continue to push the GUAM (Georgia, Ukraine, Azerbaijan, and Moldova) nations in the hopes of blocking every last one's efforts to be meaningfully tied into the Atlantic alliance. Beyond that, it will shore up wider alliances. Should events continue along their current path then maybe Moscow will get a very significant defection.
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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by jerry7 View Post
    That's the problem. Assurances were made to Russia by the US and western Europe when Germany reunited that NATO would not move any further east.
    No such assurances were made. There was talk of Russia joining. Russia said great powers don't join alliances they make them.

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I'm sick of the calls for the USA to run with its tail between its legs to talk of WWIII.

    Putin understands the USA is in the coward's mode, so can act as if Russia does not fear war with the USA, while the USA is terrified of war with Russia.

    When did the USA become such cowards? We pricked with Russia and they pricked with us the entire Cold War and Russia was vastly more powerful and influential then.

    The escalation Russia threatens otherwise in diplomatic matters is real, but it is an escalation that we match it we win it. We hold most the cards, not Russia.
    I am sorry, but what you are putting forward here is not only incorrect, but it is unhelpful emotional rhetoric. First of all no one is suggesting that the US "run with it's tail between it's legs." However, it is true that if the situation is allowed to deteriorate the world could find itself face with a very nasty war that would make the two previous world wars look child's play.

    The truth is that, contrary to what you are putting forward, Putin does not see the USA as cowards. Quite the contrary. He sees that the US, through NATO, is trying to push it's way right up to Russia's borders through it's recent activity in Ukraine. Putin is a Russian nationalist. What he was faced with in Ukraine is the strong possibility of seeing NATO military might being placed right alongside the seat of Russia's naval power at Sevastopol. No Russian national would stand for that. Therefore he responded in such a strong way. It was a very big strategic blunder to have pushed all the way to Ukraine in this way.

    That said, I do believe that the US has the upper hand here. But it needs to be played carefully and properly. Knee jerk, emotional responses will not be helpful.

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    LOL, this thread is littered with paranoia and fear-mongering. So, I do not think Ukraine will in any way cause World War III. The possibilities exist, of course, but the risk factors are known too well by all parties involved for there to be any risk of an accidental escalation. More importantly, relations are not so frayed that either side would feel like they could go to war with the other. Even more importantly, Putin is not some deranged lunatic. That kind of thinking is what creates the war fervor in the first place. He is not interested in a third world war and especially not a nuclear war. Russia has made similar moves to this in the past, always with some sort of defensible cause, and they have not gone on some widespread rampage afterwards.

    I am not saying that there will not be any world war, but not yet and probably not while Putin is in power. Russia is not gonna make some dumb move like going after one of the Baltic states given NATO membership. Russia will continue to push the GUAM (Georgia, Ukraine, Azerbaijan, and Moldova) nations in the hopes of blocking every last one's efforts to be meaningfully tied into the Atlantic alliance. Beyond that, it will shore up wider alliances. Should events continue along their current path then maybe Moscow will get a very significant defection.
    First of all, I agree on the paranoia and fearing mongering stuff.

    I think you are also correct that WWIII is unlikely as a DIRECT result of this. However, if tensions are not allowed to ease, this could be the trigger that results in the two sides implementing highly adversarial foreign policy that further deteriorates trust and increases paranoia and false apprehension with regards to intent. Thus the favorable conditions that lead finally to war would be created.

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting - The Washington Post



    Thus ends the "new thinking" of Gorbachev. In his speech to a joint session of parliament, Putin said that Ukraine was the line that the US should not have crossed.

    If these people are not careful, this may go down in history as the beginning of WWIII
    And, the more backing down we do, the bolder Putin will get.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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