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Thread: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

  1. #141
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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    The point was that Obama's political opponents seek to constrain his instincts. The example of the Koch brothers is a good one. They are opponents of Obama. They help bankroll the Tea Party. Rand Paul and Tom Cruz are supported by the Tea Party. Both men lead the effort to shut down the government to try to constrain Obama.

    It's very easy to understand.
    What do you believe Obama's true instincts are?

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I agree with this with the small quibble that I think that the sanctions have had an effect. It's more like a shot across the bow.
    I can't see where they have as it's only been days.

    They will, likely have an effect over the long term. A return to the cold war dynamic will mean that Russians will have difficulty doing business abroad, individuals will find it hard to travel, companies will find it hard to get credit.

    When Europe shuts off Russian oil, then we'll see some real impact. I shudder to think what....Putin has this planned out well in advance.
    ....."actually, throughout my life my two greatest assets have been my mental stability and being, like, really smart"

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    It is unprecedented for an Assistant Secretary of State to pass out cookies to people protesting against a head of state right before going to meet the head of state. What arrogance. What an insult. Why? Because the head of state refuses to sign a deal with the EU. A deal which BTW, will cause so much suffering to the people of the Ukraine, just like what happened in Greece.
    Okay?

    Was is remarkable and weird, is that despite the fact that you cannot produce one single instance of someone at the level of Assistant Secretary of State doing so before, you want to insist that the US did not foment protest in the Ukraine. It is simply amazing that you want to engage such an intellectual insult. Amazing!
    I asked you if the RSO handing out water was good enough. You never answered. That you think that proves something is silly.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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  4. #144
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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    So Barrack Obama can't act as freely as he would like because of the Tea Party and the Koch brothers. I see your point of view here. Barrack Obama himself is a strong leader but it is other people who are making him weak.
    LOL

    No that's not my point. My point is that, contrary to your assertion that Putin sees Obama as weak, if he is viewing Obama accurately, he sees him as someone who is having to operate in an environment in which his political opponents are making significant attempts to constrain him. The efforts of Rand Paul, et al, in the recent government shutdown is an example. However, contrary to your assertion that Obama is a weak leader, unlike the Speaker of the House, Obama successfully stood up to them. A weak leader, like John Boehner, would not be able to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    This is what I said. George Bush, who is no longer President of the United States, wanted the Ukraine and Georgia in NATO but this idea was rejected by the Democrats. Western Europeans and, mostly, the Russians. But George Bush is no longer President and Barrack Obama has shown no interest in the Ukraine joining NATO, even the that's what the majority of the Ukrainian people want. Your claim that "He sees that the US, through NATO, is trying to push it's way right up to Russia's borders through it's recent activity in Ukraine". That is totally and completely false, unless you are arguing that George Bush is still trying to personally get the Ukraine into the NATO. Is that it? I r.epeat. The US is not interested in the Ukraine joining NATO. It was a non-starter and I explained why.

    If you are looking for excuses as to why Russia should invade the Ukraine you'll have to find another. Confusing America's interests with those of George Bush is not helpful to your cause.
    Although you have correctly pointed out that the current President of the United States has not called for NATO membership for Ukraine, you have ignored the historical context of the expansion of NATO since the collapse of the Soviet Union. Significantly, you have ignored the fact that Gorbachev was assured that there would be no NATO expansion. At the end of the cold war the Soviet Union had 380,000 troops in East Germany and still held legal rights of occupation emanating from the unconditional German surrender in 1945. In return for removing his troops from East Germany and renouncing LEGAL Soviet claims to East Germany, Gorbachev was promised that there would be no NATO expansion. In spite of this NATO did expand to former Warsaw pact members and even some former Soviet republics. Not only that, but you have ignored the fact that although Obama is currently president, influential members of the foreign policy establishment in Washington have supported NATO expansion in the past, and continue to do so at the present. For these reasons, Putin has every reason to look at current US activities in the Ukraine and interpret them as possibly resulting in NATO membership for Ukraine.

  5. #145
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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    The point was that Obama's political opponents seek to constrain his instincts. The example of the Koch brothers is a good one. They are opponents of Obama. They help bankroll the Tea Party. Rand Paul and Tom Cruz are supported by the Tea Party. Both men lead the effort to shut down the government to try to constrain Obama.

    It's very easy to understand.
    Oh look out for "Tom Cruz", he may jump on your couch and crash your religion.

    No I think you miss the point - The Koch brothers have no sway in Obama's dealings...

    Seriously what are you going to say next? the Koch brothers bought Obama off?

    If we're going to sit here and do this than maybe the Koch brothers are behind every Obama move????

  6. #146
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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    What do you believe Obama's true instincts are?
    Eating, sleeping, fighting and sex, like everyone else.

  7. #147
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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    I can't see where they have as it's only been days.

    They will, likely have an effect over the long term. A return to the cold war dynamic will mean that Russians will have difficulty doing business abroad, individuals will find it hard to travel, companies will find it hard to get credit.

    When Europe shuts off Russian oil, then we'll see some real impact. I shudder to think what....Putin has this planned out well in advance.
    Well Russian stocks were down and at the very least it's going to be harder for Bank Rossiya to borrow money as US banks can't lend to them. Also definitely Visa and Mastercard have stopped providing services for clients of Bank Rossiya. That must be awkward.

    If shipments of Russian energy are stopped for Europe, it will definitely hurt Russia, no doubt. But it will also hurt not only Europe, but the global economy as well. Recall that Europe is in bad shape economically now. Germany is basically keeping Europe afloat. However, Germany depends on Russia for 36 percent of their natural gas. If that stops, German exports will become too expensive and the German economy will come down bringing Europe and the rest of the world with it.

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    I asked you if the RSO handing out water was good enough. You never answered.
    The RSO is not on the level of the Assistant Secretary of State, so no, it's not the same. It's not as significant.

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Oh look out for "Tom Cruz", he may jump on your couch and crash your religion.

    No I think you miss the point - The Koch brothers have no sway in Obama's dealings...

    Seriously what are you going to say next? the Koch brothers bought Obama off?

    If we're going to sit here and do this than maybe the Koch brothers are behind every Obama move????
    What I said was clear. The Koch brothers are helping to bankroll the Tea Party. Rand Paul is backed by the Tea Party, Rand Paul led the effort to shut down the government to attempt to thwart the ACA. It's simple to understand.

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Eating, sleeping, fighting and sex, like everyone else.
    I thought Jesus didn't need any of that **** - at least according to atheist progressives.

    Really tho? if he is as "normal" as you claim then what sets anyone apart from being president? the food they eat, who they fight, who they screw?

    If that is the case then Obama is up there with some quality nutjobs.

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