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Thread: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I have discussed this at length, but to sum it up.

    1. Fomenting protests in the streets of Kiev
    2. Threatening Yanukovych to give into demands
    3. Threatening Akhmetov to put pressure on Yanukovych
    4. Using influence to install a person to replace Yanukovych who likely could not be elected democratically, but who is willing to do the bidding of the West.
    Whether you've discussed it length or not is quite beside the point. Who has been doing this threatening and what support do you have for these claims?

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Whether you've discussed it length or not is quite beside the point. Who has been doing this threatening and what support do you have for these claims?
    Ok. Here you go

    Judge Napolitano: 'Obama Admin Fomented the Protests in Ukraine' | Fox News Insider

    Judge Nap: 'Obama Admin Fomented the Protests in Ukraine'

    Is the United States to blame for what has taken place in Ukraine? Judge Andrew Napolitano weighed in on Fox and Friends this morning and in a column on FoxNews.com, making the case that the Obama administration is at least partially to blame for the situation that has unfolded.

    He pointed back to the leaked audio recording of top U.S. diplomat Victoria Nuland, saying that the U.S. was working behind the scenes to support the protests and oust the government of Russia-friendly President Viktor Yanukovych​.

    Napolitano highlighted a statement by Secretary of State John Kerry, who proclaimed Wednesday that the Ukrainian people are entitled to their own government.

    "Guess what. They had their own government until there were riots and demonstrations in the streets. Who paid for and who fomented the riots and demonstrations in the streets? Well, if you listen to the tapped and taped phone call of Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland, we did," said Napolitano, adding that U.S. involvement stemmed from Yanukovych accepting loans from Russia instead of the EU.

    "You're gonna say we paid those protesters?" Brian Kilmeade asked.

    Napolitano answered "absolutely," saying the situation in Crimea is a "consequence" of the U.S. "meddling in another country."
    Here's Steven Pifer

    Rinat Akhmetov, the wealthiest oligarch, has been fairly close to Mr. Yanukovych

    I think it would be useful if Mr. Akhmetov was using his influence with President Yanukovych to encourage him to negotiate in a serious way to find a solution.

    If there was some threat that there might be financial or travel sanctions on Mr. Akhmetov, that could be a useful lever
    Here's a Russian article

    LINK TO RUSSIAN ARTICLE

    Synopsis of article from Euromaidan's Facebook page

    USA demands from Akhmetov and Kliuyev to rise a party revolt against Yanukovych. Sanctions otherwise

    I's become known of the details of the meeting between the Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and Rinat Akhmetov.
    Nuland reported that in case of a dispersal of the Euromaidan the US and EU leaders got agreement on a single reaction. That is immediate sanctions against primer politicians and oligarchs in the surroundings of Yanukovych. Moreover, the list will be continued by the names both of those, who are responsible for the the forced dispersal, and of those, who didn’t stand for the peaceful scenario. This remark won’t let anyone of the leaders of the Regions Party to avoid responsibility. What is even more important, Nuland provided the list of politicians, who will be sanctioned in the first place. Those are Rinat Akhmetov, Vadim Novinsky, Andrey and Sergey Kliuevs.

    The USA anticipates that the Regions Party fraction will support all of four demands in order to begin peaceful negotiations:
    1. To announce pre-term election of the President.
    2. To announce pre-term elections of the Parliament.
    3. To release Tymoshenko from jail and to recover her civic rights in full.
    4. To open criminal cases on all the executives of the Ministry of Interior Affairs and the Berkut, who participated in dispersals of peaceful demonstrations.

    Nuland was very precise that unfulfillment of these conditions will question any operational activities of the Metinvest and System Capital Management companies in foreign countries. The crucial moment is that the meeting was held with just Akhmetov. It means that the US does not consider Yanukovych as a reliable partner. Since the last means to communicate with Yanukovych were exhausted, the USA and EU decided to make final efforts before sanctioning Ukrainian oligarchs. They urged leaders of the Regions Party to go against Yanukovich’s will and in fact to rise a party revolt.

  3. #123
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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    What are 'both sides'. Russia has invaded the Ukraine whereas no ther side has done the same. Suely the Ukranian people should be allowed to determine their own future.
    You can pull a country towards a certain political direction without using military force. Neither the U.S. and E.U. nor Russia are really allowing the Ukrainian people to determine their own future. Both sides have spent the past two decades using every means at their disposal short of military intervention to manipulate political events inside the country to their side's advantage. Unfortunately, things have moved into a military phase and if neither side gives ground then it will only get worse from this point forward.

    Corruption is not what caused any of this to happen, which is not in any way a problem unique to Yanukovich. I have a feeling most Ukrainian politicians would be in jail if their deeds were known to the world. Some, of course, have been in jail or been at risk of getting sent to jail. I am talking the current government in Kiev.
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
    - Khalil Gibran

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    LOL What will this fictional "leader" do? Start WWIII? Sanctions will put Putin in line and you can thank Obama for them. This is the 21st century, you are still living in the past.
    You can continue answering your own questions.

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting - The Washington Post



    Thus ends the "new thinking" of Gorbachev. In his speech to a joint session of parliament, Putin said that Ukraine was the line that the US should not have crossed.

    If these people are not careful, this may go down in history as the beginning of WWIII
    I said years ago that Putin and Russia were going to attempt to reclaim the former USSR once they were in an economic position to do so. Now they are and now we have an idiot for a president that will let them.

    I understand not wanting to put US troops on the ground, however we don't need to. We just need to arm the Ukraine, especially the rebels.

    As it stands right now Putin holds all the cards and Obama has absolutely no hand whatsoever.

    Hell, I say we go at it with Russia, however would China sit back and allow it? maybe - they might have to for their own security, especially economic security.

    But yeah, this could get real nasty and Obama is the last person I want in charge when the **** hits the fan.

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I honestly don't know what is in Putin's mind with regards to Barack Obama. But Putin is intelligent and if he is indeed seeing accurately, he sees a man whose instincts are being constrained by political opponents who are punching above their weight. Men like the Koch brothers who bankroll the Tea Party. Because their ideology is unappealing except to those who are either rich or susceptible to hate and fear mongering, they cannot compete politically on a national level. Rather they are confined to pockets of the country that tend to be sparsely populated. However because of the strong in influence of geographical state boundaries, and political boundaries that have been devised to give the party that draws them the advantage, they are able to exert more influence than their numbers would otherwise permit. Recently it is this group that was able to shut down the entire US government because the Speaker of the House of Representatives was a weak leader who did not have the courage to stand up to them. However, it was Barack Obama that had the strength and courage to stand up to the childish cabal lead by Rand Paul, and Tom Cruz.
    Thee Koch Brothers? The Tea Party? Tom Cruz??? None of this makes any sense.
    No it is correct. And your assertion is self refuting because to back your claim, you state that the President of the United States was pushing for NATO membership for Ukraine.
    I said George Bush was pushing for Ukrainian entrance into NATO, as well as Georgia in fact. Are you seriously denying this??

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    So you're using opinion pieces as fact?

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    You can pull a country towards a certain political direction without using military force. Neither the U.S. and E.U. nor Russia are really allowing the Ukrainian people to determine their own future. Both sides have spent the past two decades using every means at their disposal short of military intervention to manipulate political events inside the country to their side's advantage. Unfortunately, things have moved into a military phase and if neither side gives ground then it will only get worse from this point forward.
    Certainly corruption was a factor, as well as the Ukrainian people wanting to be, quite naturally, be more aligned with the West. Why would any people want to be controlled by Russia?
    Last edited by Grant; 03-23-14 at 01:42 AM.

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    I said years ago that Putin and Russia were going to attempt to reclaim the former USSR once they were in an economic position to do so. Now they are and now we have an idiot for a president that will let them.

    I understand not wanting to put US troops on the ground, however we don't need to. We just need to arm the Ukraine, especially the rebels.

    As it stands right now Putin holds all the cards and Obama has absolutely no hand whatsoever.

    Hell, I say we go at it with Russia, however would China sit back and allow it? maybe - they might have to for their own security, especially economic security.

    But yeah, this could get real nasty and Obama is the last person I want in charge when the **** hits the fan.
    It would not be in China's best interests to turn on the United States, especially with the debt owed China and the loss of a huge market for their products. China has already made moves into Russia, and will likely continue to do so. But American certainly needs a leader, and quickly.

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I honestly don't know what is in Putin's mind with regards to Barack Obama. But Putin is intelligent and if he is indeed seeing accurately, he sees a man whose instincts are being constrained by political opponents who are punching above their weight. Men like the Koch brothers who bankroll the Tea Party. Because their ideology is unappealing except to those who are either rich or susceptible to hate and fear mongering, they cannot compete politically on a national level. Rather they are confined to pockets of the country that tend to be sparsely populated. However because of the strong in influence of geographical state boundaries, and political boundaries that have been devised to give the party that draws them the advantage, they are able to exert more influence than their numbers would otherwise permit. Recently it is this group that was able to shut down the entire US government because the Speaker of the House of Representatives was a weak leader who did not have the courage to stand up to them. However, it was Barack Obama that had the strength and courage to stand up to the childish cabal lead by Rand Paul, and Tom Cruz.



    No it is correct. And your assertion is self refuting because to back your claim, you state that the President of the United States was pushing for NATO membership for Ukraine.

    That one was easy. lol



    It was a strategic blunder by the United States for two reasons:

    1. It forced Putin's hand and he had to move to keep Crimea from falling under the Western influence that was exerting itself in the government of Kiev. It thereby exposed the weakness of the West with regards to Crimea.
    2. It set back relations between the US and Russia. Essentially the "new thinking" of Gorbachev has likely come to and end.
    The Koch brothers?

    Is that the progressive answer to everything???

    You do realize the Koch brothers aren't even in the top 15 when it comes to political donations to any party despite their wealth?

    Furthermore, how the hell would the Koch brothers have ANY influence over Obama whatsoever?

    How about George Soros' geopolitical interests (who BTW donates way more than the Koch bros)?

    You know Putin is threatening to drop like 110 billion in US bonds, which makes anyone that is mega-rich worried, regardless of political affiliation. However that is just the tip of the iceberg here - I wonder who has more invested in Russia wealthy conservatives or wealthy progressive socialists like Soros? who has more to lose beyond economic impact of the bonds?

    My money is on the notion that a lot of wealthy progressives have a lot of money tied up in Russian investments, and pissing on Mother Russia and Putin would be like pissing on some of Obama's most lucrative campaign contributors.

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