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Thread: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

  1. #111
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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Indeed, European banks are known to turn a blind eye to anything that stands in the way of them making money.
    Only European banks? So tell me which banks turn down money.

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Hardly - he'd simply need a plan and choose the right time to implement it. No soothsayer, crystal ball or tarot cards needed.

    Putin did what he did to EXPAND his country's interest, not protect it. The US simply gave him the keys and showed him the door to open.
    Exactly. Henninger. certainly no alarmist, summarizes the situation beautifully. Daniel Henninger: American Fatigue Syndrome - WSJ.com

  3. #113
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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    He quite accurately sees Barrack Obama as weak and way out of his depth, just as has been during his entire Presidency. It has nothing to do with the American people, apart from those who elected him, and most of them most by now must realize their error.
    That is incorrect. When George Bush was President he pushed for Ukarianes membership in NATO but this was rejected by the Western Europeans, the Democrats and, most vociferously, the Russians. We can now see why.

    A strategic blunder by whom? We'll see if Putin dares proceed further into the Ukraine before the US elects a leader in three years and then whether the Russian military can even keep the Crimea into the future when Putin is out and stronger Western leadership is in.
    LOL What will this fictional "leader" do? Start WWIII? Sanctions will put Putin in line and you can thank Obama for them. This is the 21st century, you are still living in the past.

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    LOL What will this fictional "leader" do? Start WWIII? Sanctions will put Putin in line and you can thank Obama for them. This is the 21st century, you are still living in the past.
    How will Sanctions put Puddin and Russia in line? Didn't stop him from taking the last Ukrainian Military base in Crimea. Hasn't stopped him from doubling the mass of troops on the Ukraine's Eastern and Southern border.

    Some are saying Right now.....he has enough troops to take the Ukraine. In hours. What would anyone or any other country do.....until after the fact?

    There are only a certain set of sanctions that can be done to hurt Russia. But to do so Hurts the EU severely and then the Worst affects the Entire Global Economy.

    So what Sanctions can we do to hurt them that the entire planet doesn't take the hit?

  5. #115
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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    He quite accurately sees Barrack Obama as weak and way out of his depth, just as has been during his entire Presidency. It has nothing to do with the American people, apart from those who elected him, and most of them most by now must realize their error.
    I honestly don't know what is in Putin's mind with regards to Barack Obama. But Putin is intelligent and if he is indeed seeing accurately, he sees a man whose instincts are being constrained by political opponents who are punching above their weight. Men like the Koch brothers who bankroll the Tea Party. Because their ideology is unappealing except to those who are either rich or susceptible to hate and fear mongering, they cannot compete politically on a national level. Rather they are confined to pockets of the country that tend to be sparsely populated. However because of the strong in influence of geographical state boundaries, and political boundaries that have been devised to give the party that draws them the advantage, they are able to exert more influence than their numbers would otherwise permit. Recently it is this group that was able to shut down the entire US government because the Speaker of the House of Representatives was a weak leader who did not have the courage to stand up to them. However, it was Barack Obama that had the strength and courage to stand up to the childish cabal lead by Rand Paul, and Tom Cruz.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    That is incorrect. When George Bush was President he pushed for Ukarianes membership in NATO but this was rejected by the Western Europeans, the Democrats and, most vociferously, the Russians. We can now see why.
    No it is correct. And your assertion is self refuting because to back your claim, you state that the President of the United States was pushing for NATO membership for Ukraine.

    That one was easy. lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    A strategic blunder by whom? We'll see if Putin dares proceed further into the Ukraine before the US elects a leader in three years and then whether the Russian military can even keep the Crimea into the future when Putin is out and stronger Western leadership is in.
    It was a strategic blunder by the United States for two reasons:

    1. It forced Putin's hand and he had to move to keep Crimea from falling under the Western influence that was exerting itself in the government of Kiev. It thereby exposed the weakness of the West with regards to Crimea.
    2. It set back relations between the US and Russia. Essentially the "new thinking" of Gorbachev has likely come to and end.

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Which aggressive moves were these?? It was Putin who invaded and that's where any blame belongs.
    I have discussed this at length, but to sum it up.

    1. Fomenting protests in the streets of Kiev
    2. Threatening Yanukovych to give into demands
    3. Threatening Akhmetov to put pressure on Yanukovych
    4. Using influence to install a person to replace Yanukovych who likely could not be elected democratically, but who is willing to do the bidding of the West.

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    I doubt the nukes will be launched anytime soon, but the US is playing a very dangerous game. Putin is on record as having told George W. Bush that he would "tear her apart" should the US try to pry Ukraine to the west. Once again the inexperience of the wonder kid in the Oval office shows. With that on record, they should have known the Russians would have a reaction, and they have. Having apparently been caught by surprise by this move is advantage Putin, as he has clearly been planning this move for a long time.

    While the UN and Obama's "international community" can stomp their little feat, Putin has justification for his moves in the minds of Crimeans and many Russian speaking people in Ukraine, which is where it counts when he wants to stage another referendum.

    I mean, they have imposed "sanctions" on individuals in Russia who don't have assets there. That's serious punishment all right.
    I agree with this with the small quibble that I think that the sanctions have had an effect. It's more like a shot across the bow.

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Here's just one example of what NATO can field, and this is just Poland. When I saw this, it actually surprised me that Poland had such a formidable military. Add to this, all the other NATO nations, and with the sole exception of their nuclear arsenal, Russia would have a difficult time imposing its will militarily. In other words, NATO would have the ability to contain Russia. However, I truly believe that any attack on Russia's homeland would be met with an all out nuclear response, because Putin would do what no other Russian or Soviet leader would ever do... push the button and never look back. I seriously think he's that psychotic. In that way, he is a lot like many historical bad guys (and yes, Hitler for one). He seems to feel that he has a preordained destiny to be the leader of western Europe, and maybe ever then world.

    Putin scares the hell out me. He may push the world into war, and blame the world for it.



    EDIT: Forgot to attach the dang video... sorry for that.
    Don't forget that during NATO's regiem change in Libya, NATO ran out of bombs. And Putin noticed it.

    >" NATO retains considerable luster from its early years, but its reputation is not in line with reality. An honest appraisal of NATO’s capabilities will quickly find that most of its European members have let their militaries fall into such disrepair that NATO, in terms of accomplishing military missions, is nothing more than a horseless Tonto, while the United States remains the Lone Ranger... "<

    Defense Secretary Robert Gates said, NATO's military capabilities simply aren’t there.
    “just three months into the campaign we had to resupply even our strongest allies with precision-guided bombs and missiles – they had exhausted their meager supply.”
    Wake Up NATO, You

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Only European banks? So tell me which banks turn down money.
    lol

    Well my understanding is that Bank Rossiya won't be able to do business with US banks and other businesses. Banks loan each other money. That's they way they make money. It means Bank Rossiya can't borrow money from and lend money to US banks. Also Bank Rossiya cannot lend money to US businesses. However that does raise an interesting question. What happens to US businesses who have deposits or outstanding loans with Bank Rossiya? Anyone got any insight on that?

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    Re: US, Russia exchange threats at tense UN meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    Both parties trying to pull Ukraine towards their side will likely lead to a civil war without either of them trying to make it happen.
    What are 'both sides'. Russia has invaded the Ukraine whereas no ther side has done the same. Suely the Ukranian people should be allowed to determine their own future.

    "His actions" was a reference to Yanukovich as the post I was responding to said Yanukovich's actions were partly the cause of his downfall. Were far right elements responsible for the snipers I would not it consider any less plausible that the U.S. was ultimately to blame as America has never shied away from using such groups in the past.


    This is nonsense. Yanukovych was the author of his own downfall.

    Viktor Yanukovych boasted of Ukraine corruption, says Mikheil Saakashvili | World news | theguardian.com

    Viktor Yanukovych leaves behind palace monument to greed and corruption - Telegraph

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