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Big Bang's Smoking Gun Found

Midwest Lib said:
Big Bang's Smoking Gun Found : Discovery News








This is an absolutely astonishing discovery. This brings us one step closer to understanding the creation and expansion of the universe. It's important to mention, for those that are not knowledgable in physics to focus on the importance of the act of expansion and the relation of gravity to it, as opposed to picturing an explosion. It's easy to get caught up a bit in the misnomer "Big Bang" especially since it uses such descriptive (though inaccurate) words.

Thoughts?
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It is great, and it shows that, using science, you can predict things based upon theory, and when the ability comes that you can prove it, you can. Or, you disprove it....Science wins either way through new knowledge.

To quote one of my most favorite persons, Richard Feynman: " I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned"
 
beefheart said:
It is great, and it shows that, using science, you can predict things based upon theory, and when the ability comes that you can prove it, you can. Or, you disprove it....Science wins either way through new knowledge.

To quote one of my most favorite persons, Richard Feynman: " I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned"
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You mean like AGW?
 
danarhea said:
At the time of the big bang, the laws of physics as we know them today did not exist. Therefore, it is very conceivable that the initial speed of expansion was faster than the speed of light, as we know it today.
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Plus the fact that what was expanding was pure energy, matter did not yet exist.
 
iguanaman said:
Plus the fact that what was expanding was pure energy, matter did not yet exist.
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Basically, relativity does not say that space can't expand faster than light. Only objects in that space can't move faster than light.
 
danarhea said:
At the time of the big bang, the laws of physics as we know them today did not exist. Therefore, it is very conceivable that the initial speed of expansion was faster than the speed of light, as we know it today.
Click to expand...

Essentially that is true. Even General Relativity predicts gravity waves (at least low amplitude ones) would travel at c. But the initial expansion of spacetime as excessively quick and there could be compounding effects. Interestingly enough, General Relativity doesn't necessarily rule out faster than light particles.
 
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danarhea said:
Actually, the dark energy and dark matter are what would eventually stop the expansion, and then the big crunch would begin. However, scientists do not believe there is enough of it to slow down the expansion. In fact, the rate of change of the expansion is increasing.
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All current measurements of universal geometry show a value of 1 (exactly flat), which means our universe could theoretically persist forever.
 
danarhea said:
Basically, relativity does not say that space can't expand faster than light. Only objects in that space can't move faster than light.
Click to expand...

The nothingness (space) was already there, it was the energy of the big bang that expanded into it and is still expanding. Since energy has no mass it is no biggie travel as fast as it likes.
 
Ikari said:
All current measurements of universal geometry show a value of 1 (exactly flat), which means our universe could theoretically persist forever.
Click to expand...

All the mass in the universe is being sucked into black holes which will then devour each other. That might not mean the end though.
 
iguanaman said:
The nothingness (space) was already there, it was the energy of the big bang that expanded into it and is still expanding.
Click to expand...

This is not true. Space itself was spawned during the big bang. And it's currently continuing to expand, accelerating even. The big bang wasn't an explosion in the middle of a big empty room. The big bang created the big empty room too.

iguanaman said:
Since energy has no mass it is no biggie travel as fast as it likes.
Click to expand...

This is not true. Neither energy nor information can travel faster than the speed of light (locally).
 
Midwest Lib said:
Big Bang's Smoking Gun Found : Discovery News



This is an absolutely astonishing discovery. This brings us one step closer to understanding the creation and expansion of the universe. It's important to mention, for those that are not knowledgable in physics to focus on the importance of the act of expansion and the relation of gravity to it, as opposed to picturing an explosion. It's easy to get caught up a bit in the misnomer "Big Bang" especially since it uses such descriptive (though inaccurate) words.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

If you really understand this stuff well I have a couple of questions. This article says

For the first time, scientists have found direct evidence of the expansion of the universe
Click to expand...

Why isn't the red shift direct evidence of an expanding universe?

Over and above that why exactly is this so important? What significant insight will be gained from this?
 
I was just reading this article. I don't think a person with a physics background wrote this. Perhaps that's why I'm finding this so confusing. This author says big bang explosion. There was no explosion. Perhaps he didn't mean direct evidence of the expanding universe, but direct evidence from the point of the initial expansion of the universe.
 
I admit it is interesting to note confirmation of something most already understood as accurate....but do not see it as "Astounding".
 
the_recruit said:
This is not true. Space itself was spawned during the big bang. And it's currently continuing to expand, accelerating even. The big bang wasn't an explosion in the middle of a big empty room. The big bang created the big empty room too.



This is not true. Neither energy nor information can travel faster than the speed of light (locally).
Click to expand...

Nothingness is nothingness and there is nothing less than nothing. The edge of then universe is the edge of the energy from the big bang. There is nothing in Relativity theory that says things without mass cannot travel faster than light. They don't because then don't have the energy to do it, not because it is impossible
 
iguanaman said:
Nothingness is nothingness and there is nothing less than nothing. The edge of then universe is the edge of the energy from the big bang. There is nothing in Relativity theory that says things without mass cannot travel faster than light. They don't because then don't have the energy to do it, not because it is impossible
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You have no idea what you're talking about. A simple visit to wikipedia would correct most of your misunderstanding here - if you truly have an interest in understanding any of this stuff you're babbling about.

The choice is yours, I know better than to sit here and try to force a horse to drink water.
 
MildSteel said:
Why isn't the red shift direct evidence of an expanding universe?
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It's a poorly worded sentence by the author. You're correct that redshift is the primary evidence of our universe's expansion.

What the author should have said is that this is the first evidence of 'inflation' - a hypothesis that in the first moments after the big bang the universe expanded at an incredible rate, vastly higher than any expansion we've seen since. One of the predictions that falls out of the math if you assume this 'inflation' hypothesis is that there should be able to see today echoes of extremely powerful gravitational waves that occurred during inflation.

MildSteel said:
Over and above that why exactly is this so important? What significant insight will be gained from this?
Click to expand...

Well, it's essentially confirmation of the inflation theory. It also sheds light on the nature of inflation and allows to narrow down some the competing theories on the details of inflation. It also serves as further confirmation of Einstein's relativity, as gravitational waves were one of the few remaining phenomenon predicted by his theory that had yet to be detected.

But the real reason physicists are so excited about it is that it may shed light on solving what has been the biggest problem in physics since early in the 20th century - unifying quantum physics with relativity. The theories don't mesh well - quantum physics works well for small things, relativity works well for large objects, but physicists have so far been unable to reconcile the two. Inflation is largely a matter of quantum physics while gravitational waves are mostly a matter of relativity. The connection between these two in this experiment may provide insight in how to merge the two theories.
 
the_recruit said:
It's a poorly worded sentence by the author. You're correct that redshift is the primary evidence of our universe's expansion.

What the author should have said is that this is the first evidence of 'inflation' - a hypothesis that in the first moments after the big bang the universe expanded at an incredible rate, vastly higher than any expansion we've seen since. One of the predictions that falls out of the math if you assume this 'inflation' hypothesis is that there should be able to see today echoes of extremely powerful gravitational waves that occurred during inflation.



Well, it's essentially confirmation of the inflation theory. It also sheds light on the nature of inflation and allows to narrow down some the competing theories on the details of inflation. It also serves as further confirmation of Einstein's relativity, as gravitational waves were one of the few remaining phenomenon predicted by his theory that had yet to be detected.

But the real reason physicists are so excited about it is that it may shed light on solving what has been the biggest problem in physics since early in the 20th century - unifying quantum physics with relativity. The theories don't mesh well - quantum physics works well for small things, relativity works well for large objects, but physicists have so far been unable to reconcile the two. Inflation is largely a matter of quantum physics while gravitational waves are mostly a matter of relativity. The connection between these two in this experiment may provide insight in how to merge the two theories.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clearing that up. Since I don't know much about it, could you please explain to me how quantum physics is used to explain inflation?
 
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