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Thread: Kremlin: Crimea and Sevastopol are now part of Russia, not Ukraine

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    Re: Kremlin: Crimea and Sevastopol are now part of Russia, not Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    From CNN:



    Kremlin: Crimea and Sevastopol are now part of Russia, not Ukraine - CNN.com

    This development is not surprising for a number of reasons:

    1. Russia has long viewed Crimea as constituting a crital national interest (naval base, majority ethnic Russian population, history).
    2. The balance of power favored Russia in moving to regain control of Crimea. Ukraine lacked the military power to impose high costs.
    3. Neither the U.S. nor Europe have sufficient interests at stake to consider military options.
    4. A military approach would be impractical under any reasonable circumstances.
    5. The costs of non-military measures are not likely to be so high relative to the gains Russia perceives it will make so as to reverse Russian policy. Russia also has capabilities of retaliating ranging from restricting access to its resources to withdrawing cooperation on major geopolitical matters e.g., Iran's nuclear program. It expects that its ability to complicate U.S. geopolitical goals will constrain the degree of U.S. economic and other non-military sanctions.
    6. Past precedent concerning Kosovo's being separated from Serbia with NATO military force playing a role during what amounted to a civil war.

    In his national address, Russian President Putin has cited a number of those factors. He did disavow intentions to become more broadly involved in Ukraine, but he has shown a willingness to act decisively where he perceives major Russian interests are at stake.

    This development also speaks anew of the need for the U.S. to develop a clear and coherent foreign policy doctrine and relearn how to engage in contingency planning (military and broader foreign policy). It needs to tighten its integration with existing NATO members so as to make clear that NATO members will be safeguarded under any circumstances, even if the use of force is required. In Asia, the U.S. needs to strengthen ties with its leading allies. Japan and South Korea need to know that American commitments to their security are reliable.

    Finally, to maintain military credibility in a world in which the balance of power is dynamic, the President and/or Congress need to abandon planned drastic cuts in military expenditures and manpower, even if that means reducing other expenditures, larger budget deficits than would otherwise be the case, or some combination of reallocated spending/larger budget deficits. Otherwise, the U.S. will be perceived as a great power, but one with declining capabilities. That outcome would rightly worry American allies. It could invite challenges to peripheral American interests by hostile actors.
    Let's be clear here. The Ukraine had a nuclear arsenal to protect it until the world convinced them that they did not need it. That is our bad.
    Fighting losing battles is what causes the US to lose power in the world. Draining more precious resources on a large military force that cannot be used successfully anyway will makes us fools in the worlds eyes. Russia is no threat to us anymore and sanctions will do far more than puffing up like a chicken hawk to further our ends.
    Last edited by iguanaman; 03-18-14 at 05:58 PM.

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    Re: Kremlin: Crimea and Sevastopol are now part of Russia, not Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    We should no longer bother to try to prevent Iran or any other nation from developing nuclear weapons. It is vital to the interests of every country to develop a nuclear arsenal. Nor should any country believe a word any nuclear power says including the United States.

    It's official. The United States and NATO are liars acting in conjunction with Russia to divide up the world between us.
    Or maybe, the US and NATO pulled a stunt that backfired. Actions have consequences this administration is fond to repeat.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Kremlin: Crimea and Sevastopol are now part of Russia, not Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    Next stop on Putin's "liberation tour" Moldova.
    Got a link for that Higgins, or is this just more WW2/Hitler fear mongering?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Kremlin: Crimea and Sevastopol are now part of Russia, not Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    Europe and Japan should be put on notice that America is reducing its capabilities to what it can afford, and that they need to start building their own capabilities so that we can shift our focus more to those other 'peripheral American interests'. I disagree that an Empire showing budgetary cracks should continue to strain itself to maintain its ability to project power. We can only be as strong as our domestic strength will allow us to be, and we do need to focus on fiscal responsibility and national economic competitiveness.
    The hawks will never buy this.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Kremlin: Crimea and Sevastopol are now part of Russia, not Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    How do you think we got Texas?
    New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, California, and Hawaii.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Kremlin: Crimea and Sevastopol are now part of Russia, not Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Let's be clear here. The Ukraine had a nuclear arsenal to protect it until the world convinced them that they did not need it. That is our bad.
    Fighting losing battles is what causes the US to lose power in the world. Draining more precious resources on a large military force that cannot be used successfully anyway will makes us fools in the worlds eyes. Russia is no threat to us anymore and sanctions will do far more than puffing up like a chicken hawk to further our ends.
    You think Ukraine was going to roll out its nukes over this, or that Putin would be concerned about THAT if they had them. We violate the sovereign territory of Pakistan on a regular ongoing bases against their protestations, but they won't be rolling out their nukes either.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Kremlin: Crimea and Sevastopol are now part of Russia, not Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Let's be clear here. The Ukraine had a nuclear arsenal to protect it until the world convinced them that they did not need it. That is our bad.
    Fighting losing battles is what causes the US to lose power in the world. Draining more precious resources on a large military force that cannot be used successfully anyway will makes us fools in the worlds eyes. Russia is no threat to us anymore and sanctions will do far more than puffing up like a chicken hawk to further our ends.
    Several points:

    1. One can't undo the past. I've often argued that treaties need credible enforcement mechanisms to deal with major issues that may impede their implementation. This is a big reason why I've supported Israel's position with respect to maintaining a military presence along the West Bank's border with Jordan and its rejection of international security guarantees. Reliance on international security guarantees has proved fruitless time and again, as promises are not enforcement mechanisms. One need only look at Hezbollah's actions following Israel's complete withdrawal from Lebanon, Hamas' actions following Israel's disengagement from the Gaza Strip, etc., for examples.

    2. If the U.S. military cannot be used effectively, big changes in leadership and planning need to be made. I don't think things are that bad, but there has been a noted inability to engage in robust contingency planning in recent years.

    3. I don't believe Russia poses a direct threat to the U.S. or to NATO allies. True red lines exist where the nation has critical interests. That's the big difference between the boundaries of let's say the Baltic states and Syria's use of chemical weapons. There are no critical U.S. interests in Syria. Pledges in the name of ideals--even well-intentioned ones most of us support--are not concrete red lines. Hence, Russia almost certainly would refrain from using military force against the Baltic States. In contrast, Damascus was not deterred from using chemical arms in that country's bitter sectarian conflict. Nevertheless, certain NATO allies, though, have less confidence. Reassurance can be helpful.

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    Re: Kremlin: Crimea and Sevastopol are now part of Russia, not Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    You think Ukraine was going to roll out its nukes over this, or that Putin would be concerned about THAT if they had them. We violate the sovereign territory of Pakistan on a regular ongoing bases against their protestations, but they won't be rolling out their nukes either.
    That's a good one. So why all the fuss about Iran getting nukes? They won't be able to use them either.

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    Re: Kremlin: Crimea and Sevastopol are now part of Russia, not Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    Come on. We spend profoundly so much more on defense than the next two powers, you can't possibly tell me that we can't cut back and still remain enough ahead for the time being. Well, actually, maybe you can but I would like to hear what you have to say.

    It seems to me that our posture of having to spend such an incredible amount is a paranoid one. I have not tied our defense policy "solely to domestic desires". However, spending as much as we are cannot be sustained if we slip economically. And stubbornly trying to do so, no matter what the security environment, will certainly lead to economic decline that results in our being even less able to do so. Domestic strength is the foundation of military strength, and if we must choose between them at this point, it should be domestic first.

    In the long term, being capable of maintaining World military supremacy is not a given.

    Looking at the demographics, it may very well be that the future "natural" order of things is that China will one day surpass us in power. There may be nothing we can do about it without bankrupting ourselves. It seems to me that Empires which have failed to see that their sun is setting and thereby failed to yield to and manage it have imploded more completely than those that were more perceptive.
    Have you been reading Sun Tzu? lol He said something about domestic strength, too. ...
    10
    Poverty of the State exchequer causes an army to be maintained by contributions from a distance. Contributing to maintain an army at a distance causes the people to be impoverished.

    11
    On the other hand, the proximity of an army causes prices to go up; and high prices cause the people's substance to be drained away.

    12
    When their substance is drained away, the peasantry will be afflicted by heavy exactions.

    13,14
    With this loss of substance and exhaustion of strength, the homes of the people will be stripped bare, and three-tenths of their income will be dissipated; while government expenses for broken chariots, worn-out horses, breast-plates and helmets, bows and arrows, spears and shields, protective mantles, draught-oxen and heavy wagons, will amount to four-tenths of its total revenue

    15
    Hence a wise general makes a point of foraging on the enemy. One cartload of the enemy's provisions is equivalent to twenty of one's own, and likewise a single PICUL of his provender is equivalent to twenty from one's own store.
    Sun Tzu's Art of War - Chapter 2: Waging War


    Heres what Biden recently said about defense spending.....

    2h 4m ago

    The Guardian’s Dan Roberts has more on vice-president Joe Biden’s comments about US military presence in the Baltics, made today in Warsaw:

    "...<snip>....Biden also told Polish president Bronislaw Komorowski that a dozen F-16s have been sent to Poland, saying “You have an ally whose budget is larger than the next 10 nations in the world combined, so don’t worry about where we are,” according to a White House pool report.
    Crimea crisis: Ukraine authorises use of arms in self-defence - live updates | World news | theguardian.com

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    Re: Kremlin: Crimea and Sevastopol are now part of Russia, not Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    That's a good one. So why all the fuss about Iran getting nukes? They won't be able to use them either.
    Well, I don't think that there should be a fuss.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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