Page 2 of 15 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 143

Thread: Kremlin: Crimea and Sevastopol are now part of Russia, not Ukraine

  1. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    12-26-14 @ 02:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    10,032

    Re: Kremlin: Crimea and Sevastopol are now part of Russia, not Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    Next stop on Putin's "liberation tour" Moldova.
    Russian state television has made an error and by mistake, it displayed the signing of the annexation treaty by Russia of Moldavia, all of Ukraine, the baltic states and Finland... the director apologized for the mistake and then put on the correct annexation of Crimea tape.

    /sarcasm

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    I do not think so.

    The majority there is Romanian. Unless they are pro-Russian against their own interests?

    Do you mean the Transnistrain region of Moldavia though?

    If so if Transnistrain joins Russia while Moldavia joins Romania I do not see what a problem there may be about this?

    References:

    CIA (2014). World factbook. Retrieved from:
    https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/md.html
    Where are you getting these scenarios? Russia annexes a region, Romania annexes another country... what's the angle. How are you getting these thoughts? What ... I don't even know.

  2. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Chicago Illinois
    Last Seen
    10-14-15 @ 09:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    56,981

    Re: Kremlin: Crimea and Sevastopol are now part of Russia, not Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I don't know the answer to this question, but perhaps some others do.

    Where from and how does Crimea get its electrical power, oil and natural gas supplies, fresh water and sewage systems, food supplies, vehicle and other transportation routes, etc?

    I ask this because if the only current direct land connections between Crimea and the world at large are through mainland Ukraine, wouldn't the first level of sanction that should be put up, with Ukrainian support from outside powers, be a "Berlin Wall" type structure closing off the two main transportation arteries between Crimea and Ukraine and shutting down/off the flow of "utilities" to Crimea? Wouldn't it make some sense to squeeze out the people of Crimea by making them completely beholden to Russia and Russian supplies/support in a full cold war/iron curtain type way?


    Mornin' CJ. This should give you an idea. But Putin has counted for it.....so it appears.


    Vote to join Russia could leave Crimea without water, electricity.....



    As Russia’s stranglehold on Crimea tightens, the Ukrainian province to the north is warning it could make life on the peninsula miserable if the coveted region chooses sides with Moscow in Sunday's referendum.

    Pro-Moscow officials in Crimea, who favor secession from Ukraine, have said they will seize all utilities and assets owned by the Kiev-based Ukrainian government if the referendum goes as expected. But Crimea's electricity, freshwater and natural gas all flows in from the province of Kherson, where leaders warn they will shut everything off if the referendum they say is illegitimate, goes forward.

    Crimea's freshwater flows in from the Kakhov Reservoir in Kherson via the 250-mile North Crimean Aqueduct. The peninsula’s vast orchards and vineyards rely on mainland water supply for their livelihood, as do the people in Crimea’s cities of Simferopol, Sevastopol, Kerch, Sudak and Feodosia.

    Just as important to Crimea is the power it gets from the Kakhov and Zaporizhiya hydroelectric power stations in Kherson, which provide the peninsula with 75-80 percent of its electricity needs. Finally, Crimea gets 35 percent of its natural gas delivered through pipelines that extend from the mainland via the Mykolayiv and Kherson regions.

    Crimea’s chief gas supplier, Ukraine-owned Chornomornaftogaz, has already been targeted by the Kremlin-backed government that took power following the revolution in Kiev that ousted President Viktor Yanukovych last month. But even if they seize Ukrainian state-owned assets, including gas company Chronornaftogaz, it may prove moot if the raw resources are cut off in Kherson.

    In the short term, Crimea cannot survive on its own without money from Kiev, according to observers. The peninsula gets $700 million from the national government each year, and Ukrainian economists have estimated that Crimea would need billions of dollars in new investments to integrate its economy and infrastructure with Russia.....snip~

    Vote to join Russia could leave Crimea without water, electricity | Fox News

  3. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    12-26-14 @ 02:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    10,032

    Re: Kremlin: Crimea and Sevastopol are now part of Russia, not Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I don't know the answer to this question, but perhaps some others do.

    Where from and how does Crimea get its electrical power, oil and natural gas supplies, fresh water and sewage systems, food supplies, vehicle and other transportation routes, etc?

    I ask this because if the only current direct land connections between Crimea and the world at large are through mainland Ukraine, wouldn't the first level of sanction that should be put up, with Ukrainian support from outside powers, be a "Berlin Wall" type structure closing off the two main transportation arteries between Crimea and Ukraine and shutting down/off the flow of "utilities" to Crimea? Wouldn't it make some sense to squeeze out the people of Crimea by making them completely beholden to Russia and Russian supplies/support in a full cold war/iron curtain type way?
    It gets all those things from Ukraine. As in, the pipelines and all that come by land from the connection between the crimean peninsula to the territory of Ukraine.
    But Ukraine gets most of it's gas from Russia. Not sure about petrol or electricity.

    But it's not impossible to build new energy pipelines from the territory of Russia to the crimean peninsula. It's not that hard.

    And I don't think Ukraine will cut off utilities to Crimea. It's not just against human rights but also because it'll hurt a lot of ukrainian supporters, around 250k crimean tartars and about 450k ukranian ethnics. So... that's not an option. It's the reason why Crimea was moved to Ukraine's administrative territory in the 1950s under the USSR. Economical and administrative reasons.

  4. #14
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Chicago Illinois
    Last Seen
    10-14-15 @ 09:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    56,981

    Re: Kremlin: Crimea and Sevastopol are now part of Russia, not Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    It gets all those things from Ukraine. As in, the pipelines and all that come by land from the connection between the crimean peninsula to the territory of Ukraine.
    But Ukraine gets most of it's gas from Russia. Not sure about petrol or electricity.

    But it's not impossible to build new energy pipelines from the territory of Russia to the crimean peninsula. It's not that hard.

    And I don't think Ukraine will cut off utilities to Crimea. It's not just against human rights but also because it'll hurt a lot of ukrainian supporters, around 250k crimean tartars and about 450k ukranian ethnics. So... that's not an option. It's the reason why Crimea was moved to Ukraine's administrative territory in the 1950s under the USSR. Economical and administrative reasons.


    Mornin RM. That's Right.....as then it gives Putin a means to create jobs inside Russia if he needs to. Moreover he already announced they were going ahead with the plans for the Southern Pipeline. Which the EU said they were suspending. Failing to mention they already had the agreement. Which you know what Countries that line feeds. They already had the agreement and are finishing out the finer details before they sign by the end of the month.

    As far as our Sanctions.....Look how their Lower parliament acted and then told Obama to put all of them on his Sanctions list. No wonder some Deputy Minister was laughing.

    Moreover while France made this move. They also came out and told all that are standing with the Election that goes back to May. Which means they Validate Yanokovich as the Official Elected Government of the Ukraine.


    Obama Has 4 Days to Stop Putin.....

    Now that Crimea has “voted,” the Obama administration has unveiled sanctions against Russian and Crimean leaders who are linked to what the West is calling Russia’s invasion and subversion in Crimea. But with a fragile ceasefire set to expire by Friday, the sanctions are unlikely to work in time to head off a conflict.

    According to one independent analysis being studied by the Kremlin and reviewed by The Daily Beast, such measures could be a drag on the Russian economy over time and an embarrassment for the Russian government, but would only be an “inconvenience” for the Russian economy in the near term. More drastic measures would include going after Russia’s ability to interact in global financial markets, which the analysis calls “disruptive,” and restrictions on Russian energy exports or trade sanctions, which the analysis says would be “catastrophic.”

    The analysis by Macro-Advisory, an investment firm operating in Russia, predicts that the West, especially European countries, will not move to impose “disruptive” or “catastrophic” sanctions on Russia until Putin crosses another red line, such as the outright invasion of Ukraine.

    “The key risk [for Russia] is Stage 3, i.e. a ban or restrictions on Russia’s interaction in global financial markets and/or any selected restrictions on trade or investment with Russia,” the report stated. “Investors assume that Stage 4 [catastrophic] sanctions are not yet on the agenda simply because these would also have a negative contagion to several EU countries, and many high-profile companies, as well as indirectly on the global economy.”

    McFaul as US ambassador was demonized by Russian controlled media and harassed by the country's intelligence service. His private schedule as ambassador in the past would be shared with Russian media, who would ambush him at public events. In more ominous moves, anonymous videos appeared on the internet accusing McFaul of being a child molester. Because of his work on civil society, Russian hardliners have portrayed him as an agent of influence seeking regime change in Moscow.

    Last year, in response to the U.S. creation of the Magnistky list, a list of Russian human rights violators subject to sanctions, Russia created its own list of Americans banned from traveling to Russia. The list included Bush administration officials including John Yoo, a former US Justice Department official, David Addington, the chief of staff for former vice-president Dick Cheney, and two former commanders of Guantanamo Bay.....snip~

    http://news.yahoo.com/obama-5-days-s...-politics.html
    Last edited by MMC; 03-18-14 at 12:36 PM.

  5. #15
    Global Moderator
    Moderator
    Helix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    37,069

    Re: Kremlin: Crimea and Sevastopol are now part of Russia, not Ukraine

    Kremlin: Crimea and Sevastopol are now part of Russia, not Ukraine
    and no matter what we do -even nuclear war- this will still be the case. so, that leaves us a choice. we can run around beating our chests and drawing lines in the sand, or we can nation build here at home.

    i vote for the latter. or at least i thought i did.
    Last edited by Helix; 03-18-14 at 01:03 PM.

  6. #16
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    New York
    Last Seen
    11-28-17 @ 04:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    11,690

    Re: Kremlin: Crimea and Sevastopol are now part of Russia, not Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I don't know the answer to this question, but perhaps some others do.

    Where from and how does Crimea get its electrical power, oil and natural gas supplies, fresh water and sewage systems, food supplies, vehicle and other transportation routes, etc?

    I ask this because if the only current direct land connections between Crimea and the world at large are through mainland Ukraine, wouldn't the first level of sanction that should be put up, with Ukrainian support from outside powers, be a "Berlin Wall" type structure closing off the two main transportation arteries between Crimea and Ukraine and shutting down/off the flow of "utilities" to Crimea? Wouldn't it make some sense to squeeze out the people of Crimea by making them completely beholden to Russia and Russian supplies/support in a full cold war/iron curtain type way?
    As far as I know, the vast majority of Crimea's power comes from Ukraine. However, Ukraine relies on Russia for a fairly large share of its energy resources.

    Ukraine almost certainly won't respond by cutting off power or water for two reasons:

    1. Such a move would impact civilians and violate humanitarian legal instruments. Ukraine would effectively reposition itself unfavorably globally and risk losing support that it would otherwise gain.
    2. Russia has the military power to quickly reverse that situation, so such a move would be temporary and not enforceable.

    Ukraine is in a very difficult and vulnerable position. Politically and diplomatically it can and will reject the annexation of Crimea. In terms of practical responses, it is in no position to try to wrest it away from Russia without inviting an existential threat, so it won't attempt to do so.

    It also knows that the West is not very likely to intervene militarily in Crimea or even Ukraine. Hence, it will almost certainly try to minimize any rationale for Russia to launch even a limited invasion in the East. That means reassuring Russia that it wants a constructive relationship, avoiding policy measures that would inflame ethnic Russians living in its East who might already be tempted by Crimea's breaking away from Ukraine, and perhaps even limiting any integration with the West to economic integration. The prospect of future military integration with the West might change Russia's current calculus, so Ukraine has already announced that it will not seek NATO membership. Ukraine's hope is to preserve the rest of its territorial integrity, overcome its substantial financial problems, build prosperity within the territory it still possesses through deepened economic collaboration with the West, and limit its rejection of Russia's annexation of Crimea to political and diplomatic protests. Certainly, the transitional government has adopted that stance. Should the upcoming elections produce a more hard-core nationalist government, the risk of miscalculation could increase.

  7. #17
    Sage
    Dezaad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Last Seen
    06-28-15 @ 10:43 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    5,058
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Kremlin: Crimea and Sevastopol are now part of Russia, not Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    From CNN:



    Kremlin: Crimea and Sevastopol are now part of Russia, not Ukraine - CNN.com

    This development is not surprising for a number of reasons:

    1. Russia has long viewed Crimea as constituting a crital national interest (naval base, majority ethnic Russian population, history).
    2. The balance of power favored Russia in moving to regain control of Crimea. Ukraine lacked the military power to impose high costs.
    3. Neither the U.S. nor Europe have sufficient interests at stake to consider military options.
    4. A military approach would be impractical under any reasonable circumstances.
    5. The costs of non-military measures are not likely to be so high relative to the gains Russia perceives it will make so as to reverse Russian policy. Russia also has capabilities of retaliating ranging from restricting access to its resources to withdrawing cooperation on major geopolitical matters e.g., Iran's nuclear program. It expects that its ability to complicate U.S. geopolitical goals will constrain the degree of U.S. economic and other non-military sanctions.
    6. Past precedent concerning Kosovo's being separated from Serbia with NATO military force playing a role during what amounted to a civil war.

    In his national address, Russian President Putin has cited a number of those factors. He did disavow intentions to become more broadly involved in Ukraine, but he has shown a willingness to act decisively where he perceives major Russian interests are at stake.

    This development also speaks anew of the need for the U.S. to develop a clear and coherent foreign policy doctrine and relearn how to engage in contingency planning (military and broader foreign policy). It needs to tighten its integration with existing NATO members so as to make clear that NATO members will be safeguarded under any circumstances, even if the use of force is required. In Asia, the U.S. needs to strengthen ties with its leading allies. Japan and South Korea need to know that American commitments to their security are reliable.

    Finally, to maintain military credibility in a world in which the balance of power is dynamic, the President and/or Congress need to abandon planned drastic cuts in military expenditures and manpower, even if that means reducing other expenditures, larger budget deficits than would otherwise be the case, or some combination of reallocated spending/larger budget deficits. Otherwise, the U.S. will be perceived as a great power, but one with declining capabilities. That outcome would rightly worry American allies. It could invite challenges to peripheral American interests by hostile actors.
    Europe and Japan should be put on notice that America is reducing its capabilities to what it can afford, and that they need to start building their own capabilities so that we can shift our focus more to those other 'peripheral American interests'. I disagree that an Empire showing budgetary cracks should continue to strain itself to maintain its ability to project power. We can only be as strong as our domestic strength will allow us to be, and we do need to focus on fiscal responsibility and national economic competitiveness.
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

  8. #18
    Sage
    DDD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Republic of Dardania
    Last Seen
    05-06-17 @ 06:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,173

    Re: Kremlin: Crimea and Sevastopol are now part of Russia, not Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    Where are you getting these scenarios? Russia annexes a region, Romania annexes another country... what's the angle. How are you getting these thoughts? What ... I don't even know.
    Well, if you promise to keep it a secret then I will tell you. I have one of my people inside Putin's circle of people. He is reliable. Every now and then we meet at daylight and he tells me of Putin's next moves, clear and simple.

    Seriously though. I think that is where this is going and I do not mind really for it means we join Albania too at last.

    How about you though? Would you mind annexing Moldova back again?
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

  9. #19
    Sage
    Moot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:31 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    27,460

    Re: Kremlin: Crimea and Sevastopol are now part of Russia, not Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Mornin' CJ. This should give you an idea. But Putin has counted for it.....so it appears.


    Vote to join Russia could leave Crimea without water, electricity.....



    As Russia’s stranglehold on Crimea tightens, the Ukrainian province to the north is warning it could make life on the peninsula miserable if the coveted region chooses sides with Moscow in Sunday's referendum.

    Pro-Moscow officials in Crimea, who favor secession from Ukraine, have said they will seize all utilities and assets owned by the Kiev-based Ukrainian government if the referendum goes as expected. But Crimea's electricity, freshwater and natural gas all flows in from the province of Kherson, where leaders warn they will shut everything off if the referendum they say is illegitimate, goes forward.

    Crimea's freshwater flows in from the Kakhov Reservoir in Kherson via the 250-mile North Crimean Aqueduct. The peninsula’s vast orchards and vineyards rely on mainland water supply for their livelihood, as do the people in Crimea’s cities of Simferopol, Sevastopol, Kerch, Sudak and Feodosia.

    Just as important to Crimea is the power it gets from the Kakhov and Zaporizhiya hydroelectric power stations in Kherson, which provide the peninsula with 75-80 percent of its electricity needs. Finally, Crimea gets 35 percent of its natural gas delivered through pipelines that extend from the mainland via the Mykolayiv and Kherson regions.

    Crimea’s chief gas supplier, Ukraine-owned Chornomornaftogaz, has already been targeted by the Kremlin-backed government that took power following the revolution in Kiev that ousted President Viktor Yanukovych last month. But even if they seize Ukrainian state-owned assets, including gas company Chronornaftogaz, it may prove moot if the raw resources are cut off in Kherson.

    In the short term, Crimea cannot survive on its own without money from Kiev, according to observers. The peninsula gets $700 million from the national government each year, and Ukrainian economists have estimated that Crimea would need billions of dollars in new investments to integrate its economy and infrastructure with Russia.....snip~

    Vote to join Russia could leave Crimea without water, electricity | Fox News
    Russia wants to make Crimea a tax free zone, free market economy. Tax free zone could be bring in lots of businesses and tourism.

    ITAR-TASS: Accession of Crimea and Sevastopol to Russia - Crimea should keep revenues and taxes for five years - MP

    Looks like it's going to be an economic war instead of a military one.

  10. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Chicago Illinois
    Last Seen
    10-14-15 @ 09:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    56,981

    Re: Kremlin: Crimea and Sevastopol are now part of Russia, not Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Russia wants to make Crimea a tax free zone, free market economy. Tax free zone could be bring in lots of businesses and tourism.

    ITAR-TASS: Accession of Crimea and Sevastopol to Russia - Crimea should keep revenues and taxes for five years - MP

    Looks like it's going to be an economic war instead of a military one.
    Afternoon Moot. Yep with Russia always holding the long term hole cards.

    "Led by the powerhouse lobbying of the American Petroleum Institute, a coalition of Fortune 500 energy companies are using the Ukraine crisis to spur Congress to approve a key policy goal: Easing regulations on the export of U.S. natural gas.

    Despite a decade-long boom in U.S. natural gas production, very little of America's vast gas reserves are exported.. That's because strict regulations on the transfer and storage of gas have made it impossible to profitably ship out of the U.S.

    Oil and gas companies have paid Washington lobbyists millions in recent years to challenge the strict export rules.....snip~

    U.S. Push For Natural Gas Exports To Help Ukraine Won't Actually Help Ukraine

Page 2 of 15 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •