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U.S. announces Sanctions against Russian Officials......

Ohhhhh I'm sure Putin is SO SCARED he's shaking in his little space boots.

What an absolute joke.

Heya PG. :2wave: Well now we have to worry about that Nuke deal. Which they mentioned to us last week. I sure hope our people didn't forget.


Russia may suspend arms inspection deal with U.S. over Ukraine: reports


Russia may suspend nuclear arms inspections set down in a treaty with the United States in reaction to Western sanctions over Ukraine, Russian news agencies quoted an unnamed defense ministry source on Saturday as saying.

The source said the ministry was studying the possibility of suspending on-site inspections agreed in the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty (START) between Moscow and Washington.

The United States suspended military cooperation such as joint exercises and port visits with Russia on Monday as Washington sought ways to punish Moscow over its intervention in Ukraine without escalating the crisis.

"The ungrounded threats to Russia from the US and NATO over its Ukrainian policy are regarded by us as an unfriendly gesture and allow us to announce force majeure," the unnamed source is quoted as saying by the state-owned RIA Novosti news agency.

The treaty allows each side to conduct 18 on-site inspections per year in the other country.....snip~

Russia may suspend arms inspection deal with U.S. over Ukraine: reports
 
There is no advantage for China to side with Russia on this issue and the Chinese know it.

Why would China jeopardize its North American and European markets for Russia? China knows Russia is weak militarily, economically and demographically and have already moved into Eastern Russia while the Kremlin can do little about it. Whatever China might say publicly is in contradiction to their moves on the Russian borders.

Life on the Chinese border: Russia's Far East | openDemocracy

There is no advantage for them to side with the US in this either. They'll stay neutral as they have been. Maybe make a few promises to get something they want, you know, like Taiwan. They've already "joined" Russia in the security council in this way - they abstain from any UN resolution against Russia. Russia vetoes and voila, the UN is taken off the table.
 
What would be a strong response in your mind?

No response would have been better than that response. He pretty much said, "do that again, young man, and you're grounded!"
 
Putin is selling gas at well below World market prices to Ukraine. For this "cheap/subsidized" gas Ukraine is $2 billion behind on payments to Russia. Putin has given from the Russian pocketbook billions of dollars to help Ukraine, no strings attached. Who is the good guy here. The USA is talking loans, the IMF, reduced pensions, increased Energy prices, devalued currency, and loans with tentacles that could cause Ukraine to lose its' patrimony (collective national assets), Who is the good guy? What's complicated about this?

BHO is probably experiencing what some might call deja vu in the way he has gotten votes from many people in this country. Give no-strings freebies. So who is going to be the good guy not only in the Ukraine, but more importantly, on the world stage? We should not have become involved in this, as this could backfire on BHO, as Putin could point out that he isn't doing anything that BHO hasn't already done, "to help the downtrodden!"

Greetings, DaveFagan. :2wave:
 
There is no advantage for them to side with the US in this either.
But it isn't the US standing alone on this. All the democracies will stand together if the leading democracies take control, as they appear to be doing. Who are the Russian Allies?


They'll stay neutral as they have been. Maybe make a few promises to get something they want, you know, like Taiwan. They've already "joined" Russia in the security council in this way - they abstain from any UN resolution against Russia. Russia vetoes and voila, the UN is taken off the table.

Whatever the Chinese do now is not as important as their long terms plans, and these do not include any serious relationship with a terminally weak Russia.
 
No response would have been better than that response. He pretty much said, "do that again, young man, and you're grounded!"

So you're criticizing the President for not giving a strong response but your answer is to give no response at all? Seriously what do you think the US should have done instead, come on now.
 
No response would have been better than that response. He pretty much said, "do that again, young man, and you're grounded!"

Maybe this is what he meant by more flexibility?





I know that was a low blow.... I apologize .... :2razz:
 
So you're criticizing the President for not giving a strong response but your answer is to give no response at all? Seriously what do you think the US should have done instead, come on now.

Stay the **** out of it and let the folks in the region handle their affairs. The EU are the Daddy superpower in this case, not the US.
 
Maybe this is what he meant by more flexibility? I know that was a low blow.... I apologize .... :2razz:

Nonetheless, it would be interesting to know what he really meant by that, given what's been going on in the Middle East and eastern Europe since he was re-elected.
 
So you're criticizing the President for not giving a strong response but your answer is to give no response at all? Seriously what do you think the US should have done instead, come on now.

I agree with him. Giving a weak response is worse than no response. No response says it is none of our business. That's what the Chinese did. A weak response says we are weak. What should we have done? We should have sent a couple of carriers into the Mediterranean and a bomber wing to Ukraine. We should have asked the Poles to allow us to replace those missiles in their country. We should have announced an initiative to develop the infrastructure to sell LNG to Europe. We actually burn off American natural gas because we don't have a use for the amount we have available. Those actions would have a chance of deterring Russia from any further invasions. Maybe not but it wouldn't be weak.
 
So you're criticizing the President for not giving a strong response but your answer is to give no response at all? Seriously what do you think the US should have done instead, come on now.

There was a post a few weeks ago now that outlined some things the WH and State Dept could do among those were:

- removal of the G8
- defense treaties signed with Latvia and other former soviet satellite states backed by NATO
- extend missile defense to those same former soviet satellite states
- seize all Russian assets private and business in EU and US banks (not just a few people)
- immediately broker a new NG deal with the EU
- Put NATO forces in and around Ukraine territory as a protection force for Ukraine citizens
- Broker an embargo of EU and US goods, services, trade (drag China along but they probably will not go for it)

A few of those could send a strong message... instead we get 21 people get sanctioned and you think that's tough?
 
But it isn't the US standing alone on this. All the democracies will stand together if the leading democracies take control, as they appear to be doing. Who are the Russian Allies?

Yeah, we are. The UN can't be involved and no the EU is not following the US along with this.

Whatever the Chinese do now is not as important as their long terms plans, and these do not include any serious relationship with a terminally weak Russia.

I don't think that's true at all. Russia is not "terminally weak" and I seriously doubt China's long term plans include the US being cop to the world.
 
Stay the **** out of it and let the folks in the region handle their affairs. The EU are the Daddy superpower in this case, not the US.

We have stayed out of it, taking a firm diplomatic stance and imposing sanctions on a few people is hardly getting into it. Its not like we have troops over there or anything. If we can't be bothered to take a stance when another nation is openly invaded by another then we can't claim to be a leader in the world. And don't give me some isolationist bull**** about how we don't need to be a leader, the world will continue on and the globe and its regions will have leaders that influence policy.
 
This can't be all of the sanctions right? I mean there's more to come....... right?

Ohhhhh I'm sure Putin is SO SCARED he's shaking in his little space boots. What an absolute joke.
What else do we want? To go to war? Take a hatchet to the world's economy?

If a foreign government seized your entire retirement savings; would that not cause you to be angry? ... This is a perfectly legitimate and finely tuned move. The point here is not necessarily abject punishment nor throwing a yoke the world's prosperity, but to have the Russian government know that that they are alone in this fight. Ukraine is now permanently outside of Russia's grasp. The Balkans are Russia-wary, and Poland and the Baltic states are now rigidly hostile towards Russia.

This is noticeably unpopular in civilian Russia. The non-state media has been entirely closed down, which is infuriating and motivating to the opposition. The Russian economy and stock market has sharply dropped. The G8 has been canceled. Even Russia's closest allies like Kazakhstan are freaked out and alarmed. What Putin has traded is the stability of his autocratic state and the wealth of his advisers for a small, impoverished region filled with a minority of incredibly bitter Tartars and ethnic Ukrainians.
 
So you're criticizing the President for not giving a strong response but your answer is to give no response at all? Seriously what do you think the US should have done instead, come on now.

At this point, there's nothing that can be done, just like when he takes eastern Ukraine next. How long until Latvia, Belarus, Lithuania, etc, fall in line with Russia, too?

When Obama cancelled the missile defense shield planned for eastern Europe, then follows that up by reducing military funding, and generally just taking a weak position on Egypt, Libya, Syria, and anyone else he has a chance to bow to, it emboldens China and Russia to push a little further with everything they do.

This doesn't happen on Bush's watch. Putin sees a horribly weak president that he knows will do nothing no matter what. This is his chance to recreate the Soviet Union, stubbornly stupid as that may be.

Our president, meanwhile, is only worried about gay marriage, gun control, legalizing marijuana and illegal immigrants, and George Zimmerman.
 
There was a post a few weeks ago now that outlined some things the WH and State Dept could do among those were:

- removal of the G8
- defense treaties signed with Latvia and other former soviet satellite states backed by NATO
- extend missile defense to those same former soviet satellite states
- seize all Russian assets private and business in EU and US banks (not just a few people)
- immediately broker a new NG deal with the EU
- Put NATO forces in and around Ukraine territory as a protection force for Ukraine citizens
- Broker an embargo of EU and US goods, services, trade (drag China along but they probably will not go for it)

A few of those could send a strong message... instead we get 21 people get sanctioned and you think that's tough?

I never said it was a tough response, I agree that we need to hurt Russia harder and in anyway we can. I just dislike the folks who complain and moan and never offer an alternate answer. I agree with most of your points, although military deployment is a bit too much right now in my opinion and I don't think you realize that the US can't just order NATO troops around. I do think we need much tougher economic sanctions.
 
At this point, there's nothing that can be done, just like when he takes eastern Ukraine next. How long until Latvia, Belarus, Lithuania, etc, fall in line with Russia, too?

When Obama cancelled the missile defense shield planned for eastern Europe, then follows that up by reducing military funding, and generally just taking a weak position on Egypt, Libya, Syria, and anyone else he has a chance to bow to, it emboldens China and Russia to push a little further with everything they do.

This doesn't happen on Bush's watch. Putin sees a horribly weak president that he knows will do nothing no matter what. This is his chance to recreate the Soviet Union, stubbornly stupid as that may be.

Our president, meanwhile, is only worried about gay marriage, gun control, legalizing illegal immigrants, and George Zimmerman.

2008_South_Ossetia_war_en.svg
 
We have stayed out of it, taking a firm diplomatic stance and imposing sanctions on a few people is hardly getting into it. Its not like we have troops over there or anything. If we can't be bothered to take a stance when another nation is openly invaded by another then we can't claim to be a leader in the world. And don't give me some isolationist bull**** about how we don't need to be a leader, the world will continue on and the globe and its regions will have leaders that influence policy.

Yes, it IS getting into it, in the worse possible way - with weakness. And invaded? There's a bit more to it than that. Have we been invading Columbia, Mexico? How about Panama? Again, a bit more to the issue than an invasion.
 
There was a post a few weeks ago now that outlined some things the WH and State Dept could do among those were:

- removal of the G8
- defense treaties signed with Latvia and other former soviet satellite states backed by NATO
- extend missile defense to those same former soviet satellite states
- seize all Russian assets private and business in EU and US banks (not just a few people)
- immediately broker a new NG deal with the EU
- Put NATO forces in and around Ukraine territory as a protection force for Ukraine citizens
- Broker an embargo of EU and US goods, services, trade (drag China along but they probably will not go for it)

A few of those could send a strong message... instead we get 21 people get sanctioned and you think that's tough?

Could be those other options are in the works, and I certainly hope they are, otherwise this gesture will be worse than useless. Perhaps a European leader will fill the leadership void.
 
What else do we want? To go to war? Take a hatchet to the world's economy?
Certainly not, but I'll echo some others who have said this already. If this was the response.... it would have been better to not respond at all. If you're gonna try and look tough geopolitically, THIS US response was a text book "Don't do it this way" example. I'm fine with us taking the back seat and letting the EU deal with this.
 
At this point, there's nothing that can be done, just like when he takes eastern Ukraine next. How long until Latvia, Belarus, Lithuania, etc, fall in line with Russia, too?

When Obama cancelled the missile defense shield planned for eastern Europe, then follows that up by reducing military funding, and generally just taking a weak position on Egypt, Libya, Syria, and anyone else he has a chance to bow to, it emboldens China and Russia to push a little further with everything they do.

This doesn't happen on Bush's watch. Putin sees a horribly weak president that he knows will do nothing no matter what. This is his chance to recreate the Soviet Union, stubbornly stupid as that may be.

Our president, meanwhile, is only worried about gay marriage, gun control, legalizing marijuana and illegal immigrants, and George Zimmerman.

O perhaps you meant the first Bush, I mean it would be silly of me to think you could have forgotten the 2008 Russo-Georgian War. Well as it so happens the Russians invaded another country as well during the first Bush Presidency

War of Transnistria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sorry I didn't respond to the rest of your post, but when some posts such obvious factually wrong statements I don't think anything else they say is worth responding to.
 
At this point, there's nothing that can be done, just like when he takes eastern Ukraine next. How long until Latvia, Belarus, Lithuania, etc, fall in line with Russia, too?

When Obama cancelled the missile defense shield planned for eastern Europe, then follows that up by reducing military funding, and generally just taking a weak position on Egypt, Libya, Syria, and anyone else he has a chance to bow to, it emboldens China and Russia to push a little further with everything they do.

This doesn't happen on Bush's watch. Putin sees a horribly weak president that he knows will do nothing no matter what. This is his chance to recreate the Soviet Union, stubbornly stupid as that may be.

Our president, meanwhile, is only worried about gay marriage, gun control, legalizing illegal immigrants, and George Zimmerman.
Believe or not, but the Western world isn't a glass china shop that America has left "exposed" by canceling a few hundred million dollar projects (edit: up to a couple billion). You need to let the Cold War go. Like Grant said, today's Russia is weak militarily, economically and demographically. Its glory days are behind it and liberalism is marching ever faster towards the East. Crimea was destined to be lost with its overwhelming pro-Russian demographics and its previous status as an autonomous state within the Ukraine.

What we know is that Putin is scared and desperate. There's no need to be starting WWIII over this.
 
I never said it was a tough response, I agree that we need to hurt Russia harder and in anyway we can. I just dislike the folks who complain and moan and never offer an alternate answer. I agree with most of your points, although military deployment is a bit too much right now in my opinion and I don't think you realize that the US can't just order NATO troops around. I do think we need much tougher economic sanctions.

Then you agree the US response was weak --- offering alternatives on DP forums isn't really a negative other than getting people to think through the situation and not be superficial about it. I know the elected officials who run our government think through this, but I'm stymied as to why they thought the actions they took was an appropriate force. I'm sure there's lots going on in the background but the only thing I can come up with is the WH is leaving a back door open for Russia to use and I don't think Russia's interested.
 
Yes, it IS getting into it, in the worse possible way - with weakness. And invaded? There's a bit more to it than that. Have we been invading Columbia, Mexico? How about Panama? Again, a bit more to the issue than an invasion.

You can't see a difference between what the Russians are doing in Crimea and what we are doing in Columbia or Mexico or Panama, by the way we aren't in Mexico or Panama anymore?

I can't talk with someone who knows so little, I'll give you a hint though about why its different, one of the reasons its different. It starts with the letter "A" and ends with "nnexation" surely you're clever enough to figure that out.
 
Then you agree the US response was weak --- offering alternatives on DP forums isn't really a negative other than getting people to think through the situation and not be superficial about it. I know the elected officials who run our government think through this, but I'm stymied as to why they thought the actions they took was an appropriate force. I'm sure there's lots going on in the background but the only thing I can come up with is the WH is leaving a back door open for Russia to use and I don't think Russia's interested.

I also disagree with the notion that a weaker response than I'd like "emboldens" Putin at this stage of the game, Russia is so occupied and has so many eyes on it at this point over Crimea that its got enough on its plate without thinking of taking more a the moment regardless of what it thinks the other powers of the world will react with.
 
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