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Thread: U.S. announces Sanctions against Russian Officials......

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    Re: U.S. announces Sanctions against Russian Officials......

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    At this point, there's nothing that can be done, just like when he takes eastern Ukraine next. How long until Latvia, Belarus, Lithuania, etc, fall in line with Russia, too?

    When Obama cancelled the missile defense shield planned for eastern Europe, then follows that up by reducing military funding, and generally just taking a weak position on Egypt, Libya, Syria, and anyone else he has a chance to bow to, it emboldens China and Russia to push a little further with everything they do.

    This doesn't happen on Bush's watch. Putin sees a horribly weak president that he knows will do nothing no matter what. This is his chance to recreate the Soviet Union, stubbornly stupid as that may be.

    Our president, meanwhile, is only worried about gay marriage, gun control, legalizing marijuana and illegal immigrants, and George Zimmerman.
    O perhaps you meant the first Bush, I mean it would be silly of me to think you could have forgotten the 2008 Russo-Georgian War. Well as it so happens the Russians invaded another country as well during the first Bush Presidency

    War of Transnistria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Sorry I didn't respond to the rest of your post, but when some posts such obvious factually wrong statements I don't think anything else they say is worth responding to.

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    Re: U.S. announces Sanctions against Russian Officials......

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    At this point, there's nothing that can be done, just like when he takes eastern Ukraine next. How long until Latvia, Belarus, Lithuania, etc, fall in line with Russia, too?

    When Obama cancelled the missile defense shield planned for eastern Europe, then follows that up by reducing military funding, and generally just taking a weak position on Egypt, Libya, Syria, and anyone else he has a chance to bow to, it emboldens China and Russia to push a little further with everything they do.

    This doesn't happen on Bush's watch. Putin sees a horribly weak president that he knows will do nothing no matter what. This is his chance to recreate the Soviet Union, stubbornly stupid as that may be.

    Our president, meanwhile, is only worried about gay marriage, gun control, legalizing illegal immigrants, and George Zimmerman.
    Believe or not, but the Western world isn't a glass china shop that America has left "exposed" by canceling a few hundred million dollar projects (edit: up to a couple billion). You need to let the Cold War go. Like Grant said, today's Russia is weak militarily, economically and demographically. Its glory days are behind it and liberalism is marching ever faster towards the East. Crimea was destined to be lost with its overwhelming pro-Russian demographics and its previous status as an autonomous state within the Ukraine.

    What we know is that Putin is scared and desperate. There's no need to be starting WWIII over this.
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    Re: U.S. announces Sanctions against Russian Officials......

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I never said it was a tough response, I agree that we need to hurt Russia harder and in anyway we can. I just dislike the folks who complain and moan and never offer an alternate answer. I agree with most of your points, although military deployment is a bit too much right now in my opinion and I don't think you realize that the US can't just order NATO troops around. I do think we need much tougher economic sanctions.
    Then you agree the US response was weak --- offering alternatives on DP forums isn't really a negative other than getting people to think through the situation and not be superficial about it. I know the elected officials who run our government think through this, but I'm stymied as to why they thought the actions they took was an appropriate force. I'm sure there's lots going on in the background but the only thing I can come up with is the WH is leaving a back door open for Russia to use and I don't think Russia's interested.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: U.S. announces Sanctions against Russian Officials......

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Yes, it IS getting into it, in the worse possible way - with weakness. And invaded? There's a bit more to it than that. Have we been invading Columbia, Mexico? How about Panama? Again, a bit more to the issue than an invasion.
    You can't see a difference between what the Russians are doing in Crimea and what we are doing in Columbia or Mexico or Panama, by the way we aren't in Mexico or Panama anymore?

    I can't talk with someone who knows so little, I'll give you a hint though about why its different, one of the reasons its different. It starts with the letter "A" and ends with "nnexation" surely you're clever enough to figure that out.

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    Re: U.S. announces Sanctions against Russian Officials......

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Then you agree the US response was weak --- offering alternatives on DP forums isn't really a negative other than getting people to think through the situation and not be superficial about it. I know the elected officials who run our government think through this, but I'm stymied as to why they thought the actions they took was an appropriate force. I'm sure there's lots going on in the background but the only thing I can come up with is the WH is leaving a back door open for Russia to use and I don't think Russia's interested.
    I also disagree with the notion that a weaker response than I'd like "emboldens" Putin at this stage of the game, Russia is so occupied and has so many eyes on it at this point over Crimea that its got enough on its plate without thinking of taking more a the moment regardless of what it thinks the other powers of the world will react with.

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    Re: U.S. announces Sanctions against Russian Officials......

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Yeah, we are. The UN can't be involved and no the EU is not following the US along with this.
    Following the US? Of course the UN is useless but the EU has responded positively. Everything depends on Putin's next move, if there is one.

    I don't think that's true at all. Russia is not "terminally weak"
    It is, and the demographics tell the story.Demographics of Russia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia as well as this Russia Admits That Its Economy Is In Crisis - Business Insider

    and I seriously doubt China's long term plans include the US being cop to the world.
    I don't know where that came from.

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    Re: U.S. announces Sanctions against Russian Officials......

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Following the US? Of course the UN is useless but the EU has responded positively. Everything depends on Putin's next move, if there is one.

    It is, and the demographics tell the story.Demographics of Russia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia as well as this Russia Admits That Its Economy Is In Crisis - Business Insider

    I don't know where that came from.


    Well, almost positively with what I have from the Brits up in here and then there is the French.


    Sanctions on Russia over Ukraine could come this week: France


    French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said on Tuesday that sanctions against Russia over Ukraine could be imposed as early as this week if Moscow failed to respond positively to a proposition designed to calm the crisis.

    Fabius told radio station France Inter that a referendum in the Crimea region on joining Russia set for March 16 was illegitimate and that the annexation of the region by Russia would be illegal.

    "We cannot accept something that is illegal and which will also have very serious consequences," Fabius said.

    The minister said the "only legitimate vote" was that for the president of Ukraine on May 25.....snip~

    Sanctions on Russia over Ukraine could come this week: France

    This means the French only accepts.....Yanokovich as the Legitimate Government in power for the Ukraine.

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    Re: U.S. announces Sanctions against Russian Officials......

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    You can't see a difference between what the Russians are doing in Crimea and what we are doing in Columbia or Mexico or Panama, by the way we aren't in Mexico or Panama anymore?
    Yes, we are, in all three. We have FBI and IRS offices as well as many other US agencies. We sent the IRS to those countries to set up tax systems for them and also to put our hooks in. We have troops stationed in each of those countries (US ARMY South). We also have a TON of "political advisors" in each.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I can't talk with someone who knows so little, I'll give you a hint though about why its different, one of the reasons its different. It starts with the letter "A" and ends with "nnexation" surely you're clever enough to figure that out.
    Oh, you mean like Puerto Rico or the Phillipines or Guam? Or the Virgin Islands? Look the Ukraine chose to secede, now part of it's citizenry wants to come back to the union they once had. How is that any concern of the US?

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    Re: U.S. announces Sanctions against Russian Officials......

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Afternoon J5. Well we did cut off our Military to Military talks. Plus Obama is now threatening economic Sanctions against Russia. Yet they still didn't want to Put Putin on the List.
    Well thats what I mean. One guy invades, the other guy says 'im not talking to you anymore, and you cant come visit us either, see how you like that!'

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    Re: U.S. announces Sanctions against Russian Officials......

    Quote Originally Posted by CalGun View Post
    Gold can lose 40% of its value in a day - so can the dollar - actually the dollar can lose even more. A money / medium of exchange called a "fiat" has repeatedly grown to be worth nothing, but Gold never has been worth nothing. Your delusion of the dollar being "all that" is are just that - delusional.
    The dollar theoretically could. How often does it happen? How often does the price of gold fluctuate by a large amount? The dollar is a lot less volatile and "large fluctuations" in value are just a fraction of large gold fluctuations which happen more often. The value isn't important of a currency....it can devalue and gain value as long as the rate of change is predictable and over a long period of time. Volatility is bad for a currency. Gold is volatile. The dollar largely is not.

    The proposal for the greenback at the UN had variation of 18 to 33% backing by the US dollar and little tiny countries like China and Russia opposed that - the formula is not static, determined and can change at any moment. Of course its likely the currency would be backed by the dollar at first, but it would also likely change over time; regardless the US would no longer be able to just print up currency for energy and goods it consumes.
    What would it be changed to? Do you honestly think anybody will actually use a currency backed by the Euro/Dollar if they can just use the dollar/Euro? If people don't trust the dollar (which has been the most stable currency probably in history) they are going to trust the UN?

    The best part of the economic collapse that just happened 08/09 is that the world suffered worse then we did. That doesn't mean the dollar is strong it just does not have a current competitor. Both China and Russia would like to change that - what happens of OPEC decides to change that and no longer takes dollars for oil - your life as you know it just got screwed. Mine would be fine - how will you buy bread?
    What it showed is that there are structural problems in the world and comparatively the US (and the dollar) are the most stable in the world.

    You seem to act like they take the dollar as a charity case.

    Which currency would you take as an OPEC country. The Ruble? The Yuan which is pretty much strictly controlled by the Chinese government? The Yen which has proven to be volatile?

    If you sell your oil you want a currency that you know will relatively keep it's value. If you sign a contract to provide oil in 5 months at a certain cost you want a currency that will change by a small amount or act in a predictable manner. That's why the dollar is used.
    “People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.”
    *Adam Smith*

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