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Thread: U.S. announces Sanctions against Russian Officials......

  1. #61
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    Re: U.S. announces Sanctions against Russian Officials......

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    So you're criticizing the President for not giving a strong response but your answer is to give no response at all? Seriously what do you think the US should have done instead, come on now.
    There was a post a few weeks ago now that outlined some things the WH and State Dept could do among those were:

    - removal of the G8
    - defense treaties signed with Latvia and other former soviet satellite states backed by NATO
    - extend missile defense to those same former soviet satellite states
    - seize all Russian assets private and business in EU and US banks (not just a few people)
    - immediately broker a new NG deal with the EU
    - Put NATO forces in and around Ukraine territory as a protection force for Ukraine citizens
    - Broker an embargo of EU and US goods, services, trade (drag China along but they probably will not go for it)

    A few of those could send a strong message... instead we get 21 people get sanctioned and you think that's tough?
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  2. #62
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    Re: U.S. announces Sanctions against Russian Officials......

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    But it isn't the US standing alone on this. All the democracies will stand together if the leading democracies take control, as they appear to be doing. Who are the Russian Allies?
    Yeah, we are. The UN can't be involved and no the EU is not following the US along with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Whatever the Chinese do now is not as important as their long terms plans, and these do not include any serious relationship with a terminally weak Russia.
    I don't think that's true at all. Russia is not "terminally weak" and I seriously doubt China's long term plans include the US being cop to the world.

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    Re: U.S. announces Sanctions against Russian Officials......

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Stay the **** out of it and let the folks in the region handle their affairs. The EU are the Daddy superpower in this case, not the US.
    We have stayed out of it, taking a firm diplomatic stance and imposing sanctions on a few people is hardly getting into it. Its not like we have troops over there or anything. If we can't be bothered to take a stance when another nation is openly invaded by another then we can't claim to be a leader in the world. And don't give me some isolationist bull**** about how we don't need to be a leader, the world will continue on and the globe and its regions will have leaders that influence policy.

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    Re: U.S. announces Sanctions against Russian Officials......

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    This can't be all of the sanctions right? I mean there's more to come....... right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Ohhhhh I'm sure Putin is SO SCARED he's shaking in his little space boots. What an absolute joke.
    What else do we want? To go to war? Take a hatchet to the world's economy?

    If a foreign government seized your entire retirement savings; would that not cause you to be angry? ... This is a perfectly legitimate and finely tuned move. The point here is not necessarily abject punishment nor throwing a yoke the world's prosperity, but to have the Russian government know that that they are alone in this fight. Ukraine is now permanently outside of Russia's grasp. The Balkans are Russia-wary, and Poland and the Baltic states are now rigidly hostile towards Russia.

    This is noticeably unpopular in civilian Russia. The non-state media has been entirely closed down, which is infuriating and motivating to the opposition. The Russian economy and stock market has sharply dropped. The G8 has been canceled. Even Russia's closest allies like Kazakhstan are freaked out and alarmed. What Putin has traded is the stability of his autocratic state and the wealth of his advisers for a small, impoverished region filled with a minority of incredibly bitter Tartars and ethnic Ukrainians.
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    Re: U.S. announces Sanctions against Russian Officials......

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    So you're criticizing the President for not giving a strong response but your answer is to give no response at all? Seriously what do you think the US should have done instead, come on now.
    At this point, there's nothing that can be done, just like when he takes eastern Ukraine next. How long until Latvia, Belarus, Lithuania, etc, fall in line with Russia, too?

    When Obama cancelled the missile defense shield planned for eastern Europe, then follows that up by reducing military funding, and generally just taking a weak position on Egypt, Libya, Syria, and anyone else he has a chance to bow to, it emboldens China and Russia to push a little further with everything they do.

    This doesn't happen on Bush's watch. Putin sees a horribly weak president that he knows will do nothing no matter what. This is his chance to recreate the Soviet Union, stubbornly stupid as that may be.

    Our president, meanwhile, is only worried about gay marriage, gun control, legalizing marijuana and illegal immigrants, and George Zimmerman.

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    Re: U.S. announces Sanctions against Russian Officials......

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    There was a post a few weeks ago now that outlined some things the WH and State Dept could do among those were:

    - removal of the G8
    - defense treaties signed with Latvia and other former soviet satellite states backed by NATO
    - extend missile defense to those same former soviet satellite states
    - seize all Russian assets private and business in EU and US banks (not just a few people)
    - immediately broker a new NG deal with the EU
    - Put NATO forces in and around Ukraine territory as a protection force for Ukraine citizens
    - Broker an embargo of EU and US goods, services, trade (drag China along but they probably will not go for it)

    A few of those could send a strong message... instead we get 21 people get sanctioned and you think that's tough?
    I never said it was a tough response, I agree that we need to hurt Russia harder and in anyway we can. I just dislike the folks who complain and moan and never offer an alternate answer. I agree with most of your points, although military deployment is a bit too much right now in my opinion and I don't think you realize that the US can't just order NATO troops around. I do think we need much tougher economic sanctions.

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    Re: U.S. announces Sanctions against Russian Officials......

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    At this point, there's nothing that can be done, just like when he takes eastern Ukraine next. How long until Latvia, Belarus, Lithuania, etc, fall in line with Russia, too?

    When Obama cancelled the missile defense shield planned for eastern Europe, then follows that up by reducing military funding, and generally just taking a weak position on Egypt, Libya, Syria, and anyone else he has a chance to bow to, it emboldens China and Russia to push a little further with everything they do.

    This doesn't happen on Bush's watch. Putin sees a horribly weak president that he knows will do nothing no matter what. This is his chance to recreate the Soviet Union, stubbornly stupid as that may be.

    Our president, meanwhile, is only worried about gay marriage, gun control, legalizing illegal immigrants, and George Zimmerman.

  8. #68
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    Re: U.S. announces Sanctions against Russian Officials......

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    We have stayed out of it, taking a firm diplomatic stance and imposing sanctions on a few people is hardly getting into it. Its not like we have troops over there or anything. If we can't be bothered to take a stance when another nation is openly invaded by another then we can't claim to be a leader in the world. And don't give me some isolationist bull**** about how we don't need to be a leader, the world will continue on and the globe and its regions will have leaders that influence policy.
    Yes, it IS getting into it, in the worse possible way - with weakness. And invaded? There's a bit more to it than that. Have we been invading Columbia, Mexico? How about Panama? Again, a bit more to the issue than an invasion.

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    Re: U.S. announces Sanctions against Russian Officials......

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    There was a post a few weeks ago now that outlined some things the WH and State Dept could do among those were:

    - removal of the G8
    - defense treaties signed with Latvia and other former soviet satellite states backed by NATO
    - extend missile defense to those same former soviet satellite states
    - seize all Russian assets private and business in EU and US banks (not just a few people)
    - immediately broker a new NG deal with the EU
    - Put NATO forces in and around Ukraine territory as a protection force for Ukraine citizens
    - Broker an embargo of EU and US goods, services, trade (drag China along but they probably will not go for it)

    A few of those could send a strong message... instead we get 21 people get sanctioned and you think that's tough?
    Could be those other options are in the works, and I certainly hope they are, otherwise this gesture will be worse than useless. Perhaps a European leader will fill the leadership void.

  10. #70
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    Re: U.S. announces Sanctions against Russian Officials......

    Quote Originally Posted by brothern View Post
    What else do we want? To go to war? Take a hatchet to the world's economy?
    Certainly not, but I'll echo some others who have said this already. If this was the response.... it would have been better to not respond at all. If you're gonna try and look tough geopolitically, THIS US response was a text book "Don't do it this way" example. I'm fine with us taking the back seat and letting the EU deal with this.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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