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Thread: Pro-Life High School Group Says Principal Banned Them From Using Life-Sized Fetus

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    Re: Pro-Life High School Group Says Principal Banned Them From Using Life-Sized Fetus

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Public Schools are not free speech zone during school hours.
    No, they are not true free speech zones, but neither can administrators force students to give up first amendment rights simply because the administrator does not like the message. He / she must prove the speech is disruptive or obscene.

    The precedent SCOTUS case of Tinker vs Des Moines allowed student to wear black armbands in protest of the Vietnam war.


    But... these student want to set up a semi permanent display to express their first amendement rights. Is this different than saying.... "we want to wear pro life or NOW t-shirts"?

    My bet is that in the end, the courts are going to give the principal leeway, even if he might be biased and simply does not like pro life speech. The courts aleady have to devote energy to deciding what is or not obscene. I dont think they want to also get involved in "socio political group "A" gets to have a bigger display, gets a prime location, can fund a cooler display etc. than we can...

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    Re: Pro-Life High School Group Says Principal Banned Them From Using Life-Sized Fetus

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    No, they are not true free speech zones, but neither can administrators force students to give up first amendment rights simply because the administrator does not like the message. He / she must prove the speech is disruptive or obscene.

    The precedent SCOTUS case of Tinker vs Des Moines allowed student to wear black armbands in protest of the Vietnam war.


    But... these student want to set up a semi permanent display to express their first amendement rights. Is this different than saying.... "we want to wear pro life or NOW t-shirts"?

    My bet is that in the end, the courts are going to give the principal leeway, even if he might be biased and simply does not like pro life speech. The courts aleady have to devote energy to deciding what is or not obscene. I dont think they want to also get involved in "socio political group "A" gets to have a bigger display, gets a prime location, can fund a cooler display etc. than we can...
    Well said, I agree....
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Pro-Life High School Group Says Principal Banned Them From Using Life-Sized Fetus

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    ...

    My bet is that in the end, the courts are going to give the principal leeway, even if he might be biased and simply does not like pro life speech. The courts aleady have to devote energy to deciding what is or not obscene. I dont think they want to also get involved in "socio political group "A" gets to have a bigger display, gets a prime location, can fund a cooler display etc. than we can...
    I highly doubt this case will even go to court.
    If it does I think the court will not find a first amendment rights violation.

    If does go to court what is more likely to happen is that no clubs will be able to have displays during school hours in public schools nation wide.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: Pro-Life High School Group Says Principal Banned Them From Using Life-Sized Fetus

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    If does go to court what is more likely to happen is that no clubs will be able to have displays during school hours in public schools nation wide.
    I think this would be the best policy.

    If not, there would be endless displays, counter displays, and counter counter displays. Then, arguments over whether or not 'PC' or 'non PC' display "X" has quasi official school support or "hey... this is not really a student display (speech), its a professionaly funded display given to them by activist group "AG" " etc. etc.
    Last edited by Cryptic; 03-24-14 at 12:03 PM.

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    Re: Pro-Life High School Group Says Principal Banned Them From Using Life-Sized Fetus

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    I highly doubt this case will even go to court.
    If it does I think the court will not find a first amendment rights violation.

    If does go to court what is more likely to happen is that no clubs will be able to have displays during school hours in public schools nation wide.
    If that were to be the case, and this is speculation to start with, I also doubt this will be a court case, unless there are further unfair hurdles ongoing to this club, but if this were to happen wouldn't that be a shame that the obviously pro choice principle would ruin it for everyone just to curtail having to allow equal treatment to this one group?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Pro-Life High School Group Says Principal Banned Them From Using Life-Sized Fetus

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    If that were to be the case, and this is speculation to start with, I also doubt this will be a court case, unless there are further unfair hurdles ongoing to this club, but if this were to happen wouldn't that be a shame that the obviously pro choice principle would ruin it for everyone just to curtail having to allow equal treatment to this one group?
    Because religious and political groups should not be endorsed by public schools.

    If was a reproductive choice club or a Christian Club, a Muslim Club, a Jehovah's Witness club , I would feel the same.

    Political and Religious clubs are not school/subject related clubs like the drama club, French club, history club, etc.

    BTW: I do not agree that the principal is obviously pro choice.
    Last edited by minnie616; 03-24-14 at 12:42 PM.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: Pro-Life High School Group Says Principal Banned Them From Using Life-Sized Fetus

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Because religious and political groups should not be endorsed by public schools.

    If was a reproductive choice club or a Christian Club, a Muslim Club, a Jehovah's Witness club , I would feel the same.

    Political and Religious clubs are not school/subject related clubs like the drama club, French club, history club, etc.
    So much for advocating critical thought in our education system...Tell me Minnie, do you also object to Christmas carols being performed at the Christmas pageant?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Pro-Life High School Group Says Principal Banned Them From Using Life-Sized Fetus

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So much for advocating critical thought in our education system...Tell me Minnie, do you also object to Christmas carols being performed at the Christmas pageant?
    Well, our public schools do not have Christmas pageants or even Christmas concerts.
    They have holiday concerts where a variety of holiday ( non religious ) songs are sung.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: Pro-Life High School Group Says Principal Banned Them From Using Life-Sized Fetus

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Well, our public schools do not have Christmas pageants or even Christmas concerts.
    They have holiday concerts where a variety of holiday ( non religious ) songs are sung.
    So, that's a yes?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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