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Thread: Pro-Life High School Group Says Principal Banned Them From Using Life-Sized Fetus

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    Re: Pro-Life High School Group Says Principal Banned Them From Using Life-Sized Fetus

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    OK, so you can cite a lack of a pro-choice group at school? Is there no pro-choice at school because the school denies it or lack of interest?
    It doesn't matter and is not a legal issue. The issue is, can a public school limit the expression of free speech from a sanctioned student group. In cases like this, a federal law must have been violated. The "Establishment Clause" seems most likely.

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    Re: Pro-Life High School Group Says Principal Banned Them From Using Life-Sized Fetus

    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    That is not entirely correct...the SC did not say just in cases of disruption in the class or speech that will insight danger... The SC was not that specific.


    In HAZELWOOD SCHOOL DISTRICT v. KUHLMEIER, The court ruled:
    this is probably one of the founding cases
    Tinker v. Des Moines (1969)

    in your case it doesn't say what was written i would have to look it up.
    the only reason and it was a 5-4 decision so evidently other justices thought otherwise. was that the paper was not an open forum or an actual paper so it had limited protection under the 1st amendment. had it been one of the other two then they would have won that case.

    their is a burden on the school to show that this is going to cause great harm to someone.

    since the students see much worse in biology class or will and that they probably see worse on TV or in the movies then i doubt the site of a baby in a womb is really going to disturb them that much.

    while the SC has given leniency to the school they have not given full permission to squash all free speech.

    personally i don't see this going anywhere as i don't see them getting a lawyer to sue the school just to much time and money unless an advocacy group picks it up which there are groups out there like that.

    finally someone that can layout a reasonable argument.

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    Re: Pro-Life High School Group Says Principal Banned Them From Using Life-Sized Fetus

    Quote Originally Posted by Paxaeon View Post
    It doesn't matter and is not a legal issue. The issue is, can a public school limit the expression of free speech from a sanctioned student group. In cases like this, a federal law must have been violated. The "Establishment Clause" seems most likely.
    no law was broken. pro-life =/= religious.

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    Re: Pro-Life High School Group Says Principal Banned Them From Using Life-Sized Fetus

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Biology isn't a matter of opinion. They were presenting models of what looked like fully developed babies and declaring this was what a fetus looks like at like 8 weeks.
    Perhaps so - I don't know - if so, then the responsible action on the part of the administration would be to ensure correct information is accessible to the students not a complete ban on the activity.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Pro-Life High School Group Says Principal Banned Them From Using Life-Sized Fetus

    Quote Originally Posted by Paxaeon View Post
    It doesn't matter and is not a legal issue. The issue is, can a public school limit the expression of free speech from a sanctioned student group. In cases like this, a federal law must have been violated. The "Establishment Clause" seems most likely.
    And what I'm trying to get from you is an explanation as to how the Establishment Clause is violated. It seems to me that you're blindly grasping for anything here, but I want to know why. Why is the Establishment Clause violated, how has it been done? Or are we just blurting out random things as if we suffer from tourettes?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Pro-Life High School Group Says Principal Banned Them From Using Life-Sized Fetus

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Perhaps so - I don't know - if so, then the responsible action on the part of the administration would be to ensure correct information is accessible to the students not a complete ban on the activity.
    i haven't seen what they were posting but this is a link to a 4d sonogram of a baby at 8 weeks.
    https://www.prolifeamerica.com/4D-Ultrasound-pictures/

    there is nothing gross or disturbing about those pictures. looks like a baby to me.
    not sure why people would be afraid of these pictures. brings me a warm feeling i always like seeing my kids show up on the monitor.

    in fact this is probably where they got the pictures from.

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    Re: Pro-Life High School Group Says Principal Banned Them From Using Life-Sized Fetus

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    this is probably one of the founding cases
    Tinker v. Des Moines (1969)

    in your case it doesn't say what was written i would have to look it up.
    the only reason and it was a 5-4 decision so evidently other justices thought otherwise. was that the paper was not an open forum or an actual paper so it had limited protection under the 1st amendment. had it been one of the other two then they would have won that case.

    their is a burden on the school to show that this is going to cause great harm to someone.

    since the students see much worse in biology class or will and that they probably see worse on TV or in the movies then i doubt the site of a baby in a womb is really going to disturb them that much.

    while the SC has given leniency to the school they have not given full permission to squash all free speech.

    personally i don't see this going anywhere as i don't see them getting a lawyer to sue the school just to much time and money unless an advocacy group picks it up which there are groups out there like that.

    finally someone that can layout a reasonable argument.
    Subsequesnt rulings by court since Tinker have given power back to the schools to restrict speech.

    There was an interesting case a few years back that may be analogus to student speech. An elemetry student wanted to preach the bible durring class hours. The school forbade the child from doing so sighting that the student could do so on his free time. The parents sued the district claiming the student's freedom of speech and religion were being restricted.

    Some would say that the student's rights were being violated; some will argue that the purpose of the school is education and the rules of the school must be adhered to to provide all students the opportunity to an education.

    Rights vs rights.


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    Re: Pro-Life High School Group Says Principal Banned Them From Using Life-Sized Fetus

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    this is probably one of the founding cases
    Tinker v. Des Moines (1969)

    in your case it doesn't say what was written i would have to look it up.
    the only reason and it was a 5-4 decision so evidently other justices thought otherwise. was that the paper was not an open forum or an actual paper so it had limited protection under the 1st amendment. had it been one of the other two then they would have won that case.

    their is a burden on the school to show that this is going to cause great harm to someone.

    since the students see much worse in biology class or will and that they probably see worse on TV or in the movies then i doubt the site of a baby in a womb is really going to disturb them that much.

    while the SC has given leniency to the school they have not given full permission to squash all free speech.

    personally i don't see this going anywhere as i don't see them getting a lawyer to sue the school just to much time and money unless an advocacy group picks it up which there are groups out there like that.

    finally someone that can layout a reasonable argument.
    That is inccorect. The burden is on the pro-life students to show that their rights were violated. The party that is harmed brings suit.


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    Re: Pro-Life High School Group Says Principal Banned Them From Using Life-Sized Fetus

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    And what I'm trying to get from you is an explanation as to how the Establishment Clause is violated. It seems to me that you're blindly grasping for anything here, but I want to know why. Why is the Establishment Clause violated, how has it been done? Or are we just blurting out random things as if we suffer from tourettes?
    Well, since you phrase it that way, I'm not sure you know what you are talking about. You obviously are unaware of what the "Establishment Clause" is and I've already explained why (in my opinion) I think this is a Prima facie constitutional case.

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    Re: Pro-Life High School Group Says Principal Banned Them From Using Life-Sized Fetus

    Quote Originally Posted by Paxaeon View Post
    Well, since you phrase it that way, I'm not sure you know what you are talking about. You obviously are unaware of what the "Establishment Clause" is and I've already explained why (in my opinion) I think this is a Prima facie constitutional case.
    So ad homs are your recourse? So sad.

    The Establishment Clause relates to religion and pro-life/pro-choice have nothing to do with religion. You yourself stated so. Ergo, I'm still awaiting your explanation. A proper explanation, please leave the insults and deflections out of it this time.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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