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Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

Montecresto said:
Your a sore looser.
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I haven't lose anything and I have kept both my integrity and sense of ethics. You cheer the results of a genocide and your messages lack credibility.
 
joko104 said:
I haven't lose anything and I have kept both my integrity and sense of ethics. You cheer the results of a genocide and your messages lack credibility.
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Russia is not committing genocide.
 
Montecresto said:
You acknowledge that the US would do the same thing Russia is doing, so how is it that what Russia is doing is wrong.
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When did I ever say Russia was wrong? Can you focus, dude?

If they did it with no referendum at all. He had things as he needed them the fair and honest way, but the West couldn't deal with that. ****ed it all up, now Putin is taking charge of things.
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...what? For the third time: would you accept the validity of a referendum conducted under US supervision that resulted in 95% of the population voting in favor of the thing the US supported?
 
Putin will look silly by banning McCain and Durbin tomorrow, bringing the USA closer together.
McCain is valuable, giving Obama a defense if he needs to up his own threats.
Kissinger has been an interesting read on this also.

I prefer 'No Drama Obama' saying "other" options, versus "military" options as with McCain.
It will take the USA/EU more time to prepare for Puting cutting off his oil and natural gas, if he threatens to.
Beaudreaux said:
Dang Nimby. You gotta stop saying things that make sense and that I totally agree with. I screws with my mind. jk
Keep it up buddy. You're on the right track on this one and you're making good arguments.
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I just watched Sen. Murphy from CT and he is a solid Veteran, though he is wrong that this is not a new Cold War, since it is .
 
Montecresto said:
Like I said, had it been 25/75 you guys would be all over it. You just don't like the results. Anyway, it doesn't matter. This is Putins show, US/EU involvement and support of the violent overthrow of the Ukrainian government, gave Putin all the legitimacy he needs.
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We shall see.
 
MildSteel said:
Moving on. Let's see if we can challenge all that intelligence that you have. As I see it, where we stand now is that the US has it's puppet government in Kiev, and Russia is in the process of annexing Crimea
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The American State Department does not have their 'puppet government in Kiev'. Remember this is the same State Department who blamed the Libyan killings on a Youtube video and still haven't gotten to the bottom of that matter. And you think Victoria Nuland, Joe Biden Barrack Obama or any of them can install a puppet government in the Ukraine? BHO may be a community organizer but Kiev is, as he once said, beyond his pay grade.
Obviously, the relationship is strained at this point to say the least. So what are some things that the US could do to make things difficult for Russia, without making things difficult for itself. One way would be through Iran. Previously, Russia has leveraged the negative relationship that Iran has with the US to it's advantage. However, now that tensions have risen between the US and Russia, and there appears to be a move towards rapprochement between the US and Iran, perhaps the tables can be turned. If the US were to have favorable relations with Iran, it would put Russia off balance in the Middle East because the leverage they had would be gone. What do you think of that? What suggestions do you have?
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I believe it all depends on a united Europe's reaction moreso than with Iran or anywhere else but your point, because they are both dependent on selling energy, is a good one.
 
NIMBY said:
I prefer 'No Drama Obama' saying "other" options, versus "military" options as with McCain.
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Absolutely. But I posted this somewhere else previously: Crimea was always going to fall under Russian control. It was just a matter of managing it. But whether or not it was managed effectively won't be known publicly for many years- possibly decades- but I'm afraid to say I think it probably wasn't.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
When did I ever say Russia was wrong? Can you focus, dude?


...what? For the third time: would you accept the validity of a referendum conducted under US supervision that resulted in 95% of the population voting in favor of the thing the US supported?
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Under the same exact circumstances, I would accept us doing it without the referendum.
 
Montecresto said:
Under the same exact circumstances, I would accept us doing it without the referendum.
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lol I'm sure.

But that wasn't the question. Why do you keep avoiding it? would you accept the validity of a referendum conducted under US supervision that resulted in 95% of the population voting in favor of the thing the US supported?
 
I don't believe the handling of this Ukraine thing is over yet.
With sanctions just beginning to go back and forth, I believe Russian military moves are far from done.
I expect Putin to take about 1/3 of Ukraine, the Eastern part.
I can't decide yet whether Putin will try to cut-off both lakes by cutting across the South due West .
OldWorldOrder said:
Absolutely. But I posted this somewhere else previously: Crimea was always going to fall under Russian control. It was just a matter of managing it. But whether or not it was managed effectively won't be known publicly for many years- possibly decades- but I'm afraid to say I think it probably wasn't.
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NIMBY said:
I don't believe the handling of this Ukraine thing is over yet.
With sanctions just beginning to go back and forth, I believe Russian military moves are far from done.
I expect Putin to take about 1/3 of Ukraine, the Eastern part.
I can't decide yet whether Putin will try to cut-off both lakes by cutting across the South due West .
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If Putin thinks or can just manufacture the fear that his pipelines across Ukraine are in danger, he will move across the entire country. If he does that, NATO will move troops to the border of each of the surrounding NATO countries. That's when this could get actually dangerous for the entire world. Even here in the US mainland.

If he does, maybe he'll finally clean up the mess the Russians made at Chernobyl.
 
Peter Grimm said:
95 percent of people can't agree on the color of grass. I expect and am amused when Iraqi elections or North Korean elections have 95 percent victory. That's what a cheap dictator does. When it comes from Russia , I am disappointed.

I expect better. When did the Russians become a bunch of amateurs? If you're gonna rig an election, at least make it believable. 75/25 is where it's at.
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Not really. Those who did not want to be annexed by Russia boycotted the election, which is why the results were what they were.
 
Montecresto said:
Putin happens to be right in this issue.
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Yup putin apologist, No other explanation of you defending Putin Invading and annexing part of another country
 
Quag said:
Yup putin apologist, No other explanation of you defending Putin Invading and annexing part of another country
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Wrong again, every explanation has been offered up, by several here. Your rage has you blinded.
 
Montecresto said:
Wrong again, every explanation has been offered up, by several here. Your rage has you blinded.
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Nope but, not sure if it is your hate of the USA or love of Putin that has blinded you
 
OldWorldOrder said:
lol I'm sure.

But that wasn't the question. Why do you keep avoiding it? would you accept the validity of a referendum conducted under US supervision that resulted in 95% of the population voting in favor of the thing the US supported?
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Again, under these EXACT same circumstances, I would accept that, or the annexation with no referendum at all.
 
Quag said:
Nope but, not sure if it is your hate of the USA or love of Putin that has blinded you
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Neither. Putin worked for the Ukraine as the West worked for the Ukraine, you could say they both were courting her. Offers and deals were made on both sides, negotiations were engaged, Ukraine looked strongly to the West, but in the end, felt they were getting a better deal from Russia and so went east. And as poor sports, the West has encouraged and supported the violent overthrow of the elected Ukrainian government, and instantly recognised a new government, unelected, but sure to go with the West. Only the dishonest amongst us condemn Russia for taking the policing action that they have to secure their assets and interests in Ukraine.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
Absolutely. But I posted this somewhere else previously: Crimea was always going to fall under Russian control. It was just a matter of managing it. But whether or not it was managed effectively won't be known publicly for many years- possibly decades- but I'm afraid to say I think it probably wasn't.
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"Effectively" defined by the West, or as defined by Putin? When the US annexed Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, California and Hawaii, was it done effectively, and if so, for who?
 
Montecresto said:
Neither. Putin worked for the Ukraine as the West worked for the Ukraine, you could say they both were courting her. Offers and deals were made on both sides, negotiations were engaged, Ukraine looked strongly to the West, but in the end, felt they were getting a better deal from Russia and so went east. And as poor sports, the West has encouraged and supported the violent overthrow of the elected Ukrainian government, and instantly recognised a new government, unelected, but sure to go with the West. Only the dishonest amongst us condemn Russia for taking the policing action that they have to secure their assets and interests in Ukraine.
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Bwahahaha
You are a putin apologist pure and simple
 
Montecresto said:
Again, under these EXACT same circumstances, I would accept that, or the annexation with no referendum at all.
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Hahaha "exact". Would it work for like...Canada? They're English speaking!

Anyway, just so we're clear, you're saying you accept the validity of 95% in favor? You think that's real and not tampered with?
 
Montecresto said:
"Effectively" defined by the West, or as defined by Putin? When the US annexed Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, California and Hawaii, was it done effectively, and if so, for who?
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Effectively defined by the West, of course. Who's interests do you think I want forwarded? I'm not Russian. I don't live in their sphere of interest, nor do I want to.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
Hahaha "exact". Would it work for like...Canada? They're English speaking!

Anyway, just so we're clear, you're saying you accept the validity of 95% in favor? You think that's real and not tampered with?
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It very well could be tampered with, I don't know. Why is this hard for you to understand though? If the exact same scenario were to occur, say in Mexico, and we had in Mexico, three military bases and a significant minority of English speaking people that were culturally and politically loyal to us, and if we had been courting Mexico to draw them into our orbit of influence and business, while at the same time, say that Latin America and Russia were negotiating with Mexico, making concessions of their own, and Mexico decided to go with us, and in response, Russia and Latin America encouraged and supported the overthrow of the elected government that just happened to go with us, recognising immediately, a government that would go with them, then, I would support the US going in and securing our assets and interests, including annexation of the region containing them, with or without a referendum, especially if we did all that without killing people and destroying infrastructure.
 
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