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Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

MildSteel said:
They made sense, that's why you are trying to spin out of it.
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uhhh...lol okay.

She isn't just meeting with locals. She is passing out cookies to people who are protesting against Yanukovych. How many pictures can you produce of the Assistant Secretary of State passing out cookies to people who are protesting against the prime minister of a government? I doubt you can produce any
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How many protests have their been against governments the US hasn't liked in the past...whatever...10? 20? 30? years. Let's explore this. Keep in mind that before facebook/twitter/instagram pictures in general were fewer, but let's still explore this. Might be fun.

It's part of the refutation of you assertion that the US did not play a substantial role in the installation of Yarsenyi Yatsenyuk as prime minister.
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No, it's not. Saying Obama will be more interested in affairs in Sub-Saharan Africa because of his background doesn't mean Sub-Saharan Africa had anything to do with helping him get elected. It's just meaningless conjecture until there's proof.

Because it's part of the process of making them powerful. You appear with them in public. Don't you understand? When people are photographed with powerful people, it makes them appear powerful too. It's a very old device. By appearing with the king, you also appear powerful. It's very simple to understand, unless of course you don't want to understand and/or you want to deceive others about what's really going on.
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Okay, again: that's what diplomats do. They appear with everyone. That's one of the the major points of them being there. Why not appear with the actual Ambassador to Ukraine, if that was so important? It's very simple to understand, unless of course you don't want to understand and/or you want to deceive others about what's really going on.

And it's right after the State Department has threatened to impose sanctions on the Ukraine for not taking up their offer. It's right after Victoria Nuland is pictured passing out cookies to people who are protesting against the prime minister of a democratically elected government. It was taken after she is talking on the phone saying "f*ck the EU" because they are in her way. It was taken after she is on the phone telling a subordinate "Yats is the man." It's all that.
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Ahhhhh, I see. So important conversations shouldn't take place after important declarations. What's the cooling off period? When can these conversations take place without people on the internet using it as evidence of a conspiracy? Is there a cooling off period? A statute of limitations?

I have put forward a hypothesis and I have given evidence to support my claim. The evidence is strong, people can believe it or not.
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People can believe anything they want, but that's certainly not "strong". "A US diplomat took a picture with a senior Ukranian politician, then said he was going to take power after serious unrest occurred, and then he did". It'd be strong evidence if diplomats never took pictures with senior politicians, and never gave their opinions on who would take charge in changes of power but...since that's their job....they do that all the time. So it's not very strong. At all.

Do this for me, show me another picture of the Assistant Secretary of State of the United States passing out cookies to people who are protesting against the democratically elected prime minister of a government. Show me just one.
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We need to know about protests, and when. I'm waiting. Gimme some examples where you would've expected to see it.

So you have been to one? Interesting.
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lol of course! You haven't? Are you just talking about things you have no idea about? lol

So have you, or do you now work for the government? What were you doing there?
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Of course I have. I don't speak about things I know nothing about. Why would I possibly do that, I'd just look like a complete idiot! I worked for the DAT.

The conspiracy theory stuff is spin.
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On that, we agree.

The evidence is there, and it's powerful.
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On that, we don't. At all. Pictures with a powerful politican + saying he's the best option during a coup != a CIA created coup. That's just silly.
 
apdst said:
If was legal, I'd be hoeing cotton a plantation.
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Secession isn't legal. Only the UN says it's so. It's countries that reject the notion and will go to war over it.. big difference.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
Okay, again: that's what diplomats do. They appear with everyone. That's one of the the major points of them being there. Why not appear with the actual Ambassador to Ukraine, if that was so important? It's very simple to understand, unless of course you don't want to understand and/or you want to deceive others about what's really going on. Ahhhhh, I see. So important conversations shouldn't take place after important declarations. What's the cooling off period? When can these conversations take place without people on the internet using it as evidence of a conspiracy? Is there a cooling off period? A statute of limitations?
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There is no statute of limitations for those susceptible to these notions. Recall how Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam was used many years after of evidence of a conspiracy of some sort? It's just people imagining they are more clever than they really are.
 
austrianecon said:
Secession isn't legal. Only the UN says it's so. It's countries that reject the notion and will go to war over it.. big difference.
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The question of the legality of secession was settled in 1865.
 
apdst said:
The question of the legality of secession was settled in 1865.
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No, it wasn't.. just cause a war was lost didn't mean the idea of secession was ended and it certainly doesn't mean it for the rest of the world. Czechoslovakia left the Austro-Hungarian Empire or then left the Soviet Union in 1991 and slit into two countries. Those were secession movements. So was Republic of Ireland.
 
MildSteel said:
Well it looks like the people of Crimea has spoken. NINETY FIVE PERCENT voted to join Russia. WOW!!!
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You are surprised? Russians are a majority there up to 60%. It is about the added 35% that were duped!
 
MildSteel said:
Can you provide evidence that people were voting at gunpoint? I didn't think so.

NINETY FIVE PERCENT!
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Very good point. The same people saying such statements were for the violent overthrow of the legitimately elected government in Kiev, Ukraine. The war wing in American politics can never be satiated. In time, however, they will just fade away as people realize they are in no way shape or form supportive of liberty and democracy for all. Those terms for them are just the cover for a deeply rooted sense of bloodlust that drives them to support perpetual war against any and all. Unfortunately, I find that they are never the ones to actually go out and serve and fight the wars they advocate.
 
Beaudreaux said:
All elections are real and show the true will of the people, especially those done at the point of a gun. As an example: Kim Jong Un 'elected' with 100% of the vote in North Korea, and with 100% turnout... amazing... WOW!!!
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That's very true. But in Crimea there were a number of folks who wanted this like it or not. The reports coming out after the elections tell of fireworks, people honking horns and partying waiving Russian flags. So at this point Crimea has made its choice. Let's wish them well on their waterless peninsula. And now Ukraine should be busy cutting off their fresh water supply. the food they grow and provide to Crimeans as well as their supply of gas. Let the great Vlad take the role of provider for the newest members of his family. Those in Crimea that worked in Ukraine can now join the ranks of the unemployed in Russia etc. Yes, let's all wish them well.
 
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austrianecon said:
Your ignorance knows no bounds.

Let me give you the historical play by play.

1) Viktor Yanukovych was removed with 328 votes by the Parliament. The Ukrainian Constitution requires 338 votes and a review of the "Supreme Court". Yanukovych was accused of using snipers to kill protestors but even head members of the EU and Foreign Minsters doesn't buy that. Another source.

2) On February 26th Ukrainian and Russian (Crimeans) clashed in Simferopol over the proposed repeal of Law of Languages by the Ukrainian Parliament. The repeal would have made the Ukrainian the only legal language despite the fact that regional languages were recognized for decades, even in Soviet Russia. There are places in Ukraine where only Hungarian is spoken for official purposes on the local level. Same with Romanian.

3) After this clash the local Russians in Crimea asked Russia to come into protect them because they didn't trust the new Illegal Government of Ukraine and for good reason as I'll explain later.

4) Russian send a small protection force. Considering how many troops are located in that part of Russia.

5) Crimea officially declares a vote.


Russia sending a protection force in to Crimea is typically the status quo when dealing with outbreaks of violence in European countries. NATO sent forces to the Balkans and provide protection to this day. Certain countries declared independence early and fought a bitter war over it. Kosovo on the other hand relied on NATO protection and "declared" independence a good 9 years into NATO control. US and others had no problem accepting.

Crimea was always Russian, just Ukrainian in name. Many in Crimea were mad when Khrushchev gave Crimea to Ukraine symbolically in 1954 as a 300 year anniversary gift. And they were mad when they were forced into Ukraine in 1991/1992. Crimea is and will always be Russian. Crimea wants to be apart of Russia and always has. This isn't news to those who know the history.
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There was no violence in the Crimea during the protests, and to compare it to the Balkans where millions of people were killed is just stupid. And just because the Russians have historical ties to a region doesn't give them the right to invade and annex it especially after signing a treaty, not the one in 1954, which clearly recognized the region as belonging to Ukraine. "Having a grievance" is not justification enough for invasion.

Also like I said before, who ****ing cares about the particulars of the Ukrainian impeachment process. The guy is killing people in the street, robbing the country of its tax dollars to feed into personal bank accounts and you would rather let the suffering of millions continue and the economic stagnation and robbery of an ENTIRE country continue because its more important to follow the strict letter of the law.

**** that, that's stupid.
 
MildSteel said:
Well it looks like the people of Crimea has spoken. NINETY FIVE PERCENT voted to join Russia. WOW!!!

We'll see what the people in Washington say who have been pushing democracy and the will of the people.

Ukraine crisis: Early results show Crimea votes to join Russia - CNN.com
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That is how the United States should unit the people too. Put soldiers at all polls advising they will destroy their city if they do not vote how the military tells them to.

Calling what happened in Crimea democracy is sadistic.
 
vesper said:
That's very true. But in Crimea there were a number of folks who wanted this like it or not. The reports coming out after the elections tell of fireworks, people honking horns and partying waiving Russian flags. So at this point Crimea has made its choice. Let's wish them well on their waterless peninsula. And now Ukraine should be busy cutting off their fresh water supply. the food they grow and provide to Crimeans as well as their supply of gas. Let the great Vlad take the role of provider for the newest members of his family. Those in Crimea that worked in Ukraine can now join the ranks of the unemployed in Russia etc. Yes, let's all wish them well.
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Any particular reason why you hate the people Crimea? Some ancient grievance of something they did to your ancestors or something?
 
SayMyName said:
Very good point. The same people saying such statements were for the violent overthrow of the legitimately elected government in Kiev, Ukraine. The war wing in American politics can never be satiated. In time, however, they will just fade away as people realize they are in no way shape or form supportive of liberty and democracy for all. Those terms for them are just the cover for a deeply rooted sense of bloodlust that drives them to support perpetual war against any and all. Unfortunately, I find that they are never the ones to actually go out and serve and fight the wars they advocate.
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It is amazing to read how many people such as you want worldwide proliferation of nuclear weapons. I suppose conventional war doesn't kill enough people to satisfy some people and nuclear terrorism is more interesting.
 
cpgrad08 said:
You cast a vote after the region was been invaded by Russian troops. That is voting at the point of a gun.
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Not when the people's of the region are pro-Russian and welcoming of the Russian presence.
 
joko104 said:
It is amazing to read how many people such as you want worldwide proliferation of nuclear weapons. I suppose conventional war doesn't kill enough people to satisfy some people and nuclear terrorism is more interesting.
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Strange, I don't read that in his post at all.
 
joko104 said:
That is how the United States should unit the people too. Put soldiers at all polls advising they will destroy their city if they do not vote how the military tells them to.

Calling what happened in Crimea democracy is sadistic.
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And calling what happened in Kiev is democratic?
 
Montecresto said:
Apparently you missed the jubilant celebrations.
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Most people celebrate their town not being destroyed. In WWII, towns turned out to cheer the Germans and then to cheer the Americans if there was not fighting.
 
shrubnose said:
Since most of the people in Crimea are ethnic Russians I will ignore this post.
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So basically you endorse separate-but-equal racism for which obviously everyone sticks with their own ethnicity? Then what is your ethnicity so we can pre-know where you stand on every issue given at least you are 100% loyal to your ethnicity whatever that leads to.
 
joko104 said:
Most people celebrate their town not being destroyed. In WWII, towns turned out to cheer the Germans and then to cheer the Americans if there was not fighting.
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That's a hilarious explanation of this jubilation.
 
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