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Thread: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

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    re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    At what point in your mind, does any of this give Russia the right to invade another sovereign nation and take control with their military that they have a signed treaty with that country that precludes such military aggression?
    We have done that, and then allowed for elections, how is this much different? We did it in Afghanistan and then again in Iraq, and both of those countries had to wait waaaaaaay longer than a month for a "free" election.
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    re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    The government of Ukraine was improperly ousted, iirc. And, iirc, there is no really viable government in Ukraine yet, is there? An elected government from top down, not just who was installed after the coup?

    Wow, it's so strange that the coup against the democratically elected leader of Ukraine doesn't bother anyone, but this does. Mind-boggling.
    Mind boggling? Really? You fail to understand the difference? Are you ignorant? Do you just not care for facts?

    The former President of election was democratically elected, very true, however before being overthrown he killed dozens of protestors and robbed the country of its wealth through a bottom to top corrupt government where the state of Ukraine existed entirely for his personal enrichment and the enrichment of his buddies, along with other powerful interests like industry leaders, etc. The state was not being run for the people it was being run to rob the people so this guy could stash money in foreign banks, perhaps up to 70 billion dollars stolen directly from the people.

    Ukraine's new leaders begin search for missing billions | World news | theguardian.com

    Being democratically elected is good, but its not the end all be all of it. You don't get a free pass to do whatever the hell you want once you're democratically elected.

    Your welcome for educating you.

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    re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    The government of Ukraine was improperly ousted, iirc. And, iirc, there is no really viable government in Ukraine yet, is there? An elected government from top down, not just who was installed after the coup?

    Wow, it's so strange that the coup against the democratically elected leader of Ukraine doesn't bother anyone, but this does. Mind-boggling.
    Yeah.
    And if that leader would have choosen the agreement with EU and not Russia months ago, he would have been now the most democrat leader in Ukraine.
    Envidia te mata !!!

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    re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    We have done that, and then allowed for elections, how is this much different? We did it in Afghanistan and then again in Iraq, and both of those countries had to wait waaaaaaay longer than a month for a "free" election.
    Its different because we aren't annexing Iraq or Afghanistan and we did not install puppet governments once we arrived.

    HOW THE HELL CAN YOU NOT KNOW THE DIFFERENCE

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    re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    I don't think the vote should be honored given the circumstances. However, if Crimea truly wants to secede the people should have the right to self governance and join Russia.
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    re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Russian invades the Crimea, occupies the Parliament building with its Soldiers, uses that Parliament building to issue a decree through a new Prime Minister of Ukraine, a man who's "Russian Unity" party was founded only in 2008 and only won THREE out of one hundred seats in 2010, a man who runs an organized crime syndicate in Crimea, to hold a referendum in 10 days time which will be established and run by the Russian military.

    That is democracy? Its ****ing sickening what people find acceptable, especially considering all the pissing and moaning that goes on about how Obama is a "dictator" when an actual dictator comes up on the radar its met with a resounding apathy or quite approval.

    This is not democracy, this is not an election, its a obvious move by Russia to give a thin veil of legitimacy to what is nothing more than a military conquest of another nation's territory.
    Yeah, but...
    Crimea's only been Ukrainian since Khrushchev made it so. It's been part of Russia for hundreds of years and now, since the Tartars who were it's original people were sovieted most Crimeans are Russian.
    I know it's a nasty way to do business and the results of the referendum were exaggerated by it being boycotted by so many people but if there were no troops present, if there was months to hash it all out before the vote, if everyone eligible voted, it still would have been a pro-Russian result.
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    re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Its different because we aren't annexing Iraq or Afghanistan and we did not install puppet governments once we arrived.

    HOW THE HELL CAN YOU NOT KNOW THE DIFFERENCE
    Ohh please.
    Agree about the annexing part but regarding the installing governments, it make me laugh.
    Envidia te mata !!!

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    re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by Coin View Post
    Ohh please.
    Agree about the annexing part but regarding the installing governments, it make me laugh.
    Ya that's why Iraq kicked us out and Karzai is going around saying what terrible affects the US presence in Afghanistan is having and that we should all get out, because we installed puppet governments that's why!

    You're clever you know that, do you think before you post or do these gems just spring out of your mind?

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    re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by Coin View Post
    OSCE observers were invited by Russians.
    But they didn't send anyone because they called it illegitimate days before.
    That's a fair point. I suspect that the OSCE did not want to be involved in an outcome in which the possibility existed for Crimea's people to break away from Ukraine. At the same time, Russia had shown no willingness to withdraw its troops to its bases and Ukraine had no willingness to permit a referendum on independence to take place.

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    re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    The government of Ukraine was improperly ousted, iirc. And, iirc, there is no really viable government in Ukraine yet, is there? An elected government from top down, not just who was installed after the coup?

    Wow, it's so strange that the coup against the democratically elected leader of Ukraine doesn't bother anyone, but this does. Mind-boggling.
    The British government was improperly ousted from the American Colonies. Should we give them back? Should we not have fought to leave the British Empire? JK

    Seriously though...

    The Ukrainian interim government has already scheduled a new election and did so very quickly. The Russians (a foreign power) blew the doors down of the Crimean Parliament with explosives, sent their troops into the building and put their guys in charge who got less than 4% of the vote in the last real election. No election there either, and none scheduled. What happened in Kiev was done by Ukrainians. What happened in Crimea was done by a foreign country, Russia.

    I keep asking this question without getting an answer. At what point, does any of this give Russia the right to invade another sovereign nation and take control with their military that they have a signed treaty with that country that precludes such military aggression?

    No NATO countries are in the Crimea, or Ukraine proper, yet Russian troops are in both.

    Who is the aggressor, and how can we legitimately believe any results of any vote under those circumstances?

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