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Thread: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

  1. #221
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    re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I should clarify. You hate all not Russian Crimeans. Why do you celebrate the genocide of Muslim Tartars? Did you have some great grandfather who died in the Crimean wars in the past or something? You hate Muslims believing they are all a terrorists?
    That is the most off the wall accusation leveled at me on this forum pulled out of thin air I have ever encountered. You sir, are out of line. There's a minority of Tartars living in Crimea, they are also living throughout the Ukraine where there is no evidence that they are treated any differently than any of the other minorities that make up the different ethnic groups in that country. If the Tartars should be harassed for their anti-Russian vote in Crimea, they would be welcomed in what is left of the Ukraine.

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    re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I didn't say the CIA did it. I said Victoria Nuland did it. Don't put words in my mouth.




    You forgot about this part. Let me help you out. Here's the WHOLE THING AGAIN.





    What's insane is that you want people to believe that it's not possible that the US played a substantial role in the installation of Yatsenyuk as prime minister.




    That's right. That's what US diplomats do. And that's how they get rid of people they don't want and put in people they do want. They do it all the time.



    If the Assistant Secretary of State of the United States is out passing out cookies to protesters against the prime minister of a government when the State Department is threatening to impose sanctions against the prime minister of the government it is a BIG sign that the Assistant Secretary of State is VERY displeased with the prime minister of that government. Do I have to draw pictures to make you understand?



    Ahh!! Now we can see where you are coming from. That was a deliberate distortion of what I said. And you know it. You are getting desperate.



    Yep, that's another distortion. Actually a BIG LIE. Show me where I said it was a CIA plot. You are a liar.




    What you are is a liar. You told a big lie, right here in this post to try to make a point. You sir are a liar.
    It's like you don't understand I was replying to DaveFagan, who said it was a CIA plot. If you thought it wasn't, why did you respond to me at all?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Moderator's Warning:
    Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]Cut out the sniping, baiting, and attacks.

  4. #224
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    Re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    More of a dodge than an answer... just what would a bigger military do besides spend money we don't have?

    Answer- not much when the clash point is up against a major power. Out in the desert we kick ass, up against Russia in the Georgian affair and the Crimea- not a damn thing.

    Defending our nation takes 1/4th of what we have currently. Maintaining our hegemony takes twice what we have as other nations rise in power.

    Typical CON babble- most liberals don't despise the military, they just see the massive spending levels as unsustainable.

    Nice try though.
    How would you know how big the military needs to be to defend our country? Defend it against what? They don't send out a flier beforehand, buddy. You have to be prepared for anything from any direction under any circumstances. You don't guess.

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    Re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    You need to show why the CIA has anything at all to do with this. So far, you have not. Why? Because it's just not there. This is an issue with Russians and Ukranians.

    Heya Dan .....this might lead to some more of those questions and answers.

    The US AID has been active in Ukraine for some years, trying to undermine Russian influence. This led to the demonstrations in Kiev, during the Olympics, an embarrassment for Putin. The US fomented the conditions for Anti-Russian sentiment, and did little to quell the demonstrations against the elected president, who had Russian support.

    Obama deserves criticism for how he is handling the Russians now, but also how he handled the CIA and USAIS in Ukraine, during his administration. This has been going on for several administrations. Kerry, US Secretary of State, was theoretically in charge of Ukraine CIA operations.

    The Ukraine society is short on community leaders, because Stalin's purges in 1936 killed millions of the community leaders. The society of Ukraine is not well organized, and savvy. The demonstrations in Kiev had the effect of forcing a Russian invasion of Crimea. Not real bright.


    "Since 1991, Ukraine’s development trajectory has taken the country from a command to a market-based economy. The United States Government maintains a strategic interest in helping Ukraine’s transition toward greater democracy and a sustainable free market economy. Over the last 20 years USAID has provided $1.8 billion in critical development assistance in support of the Ukrainian people. Much of this development assistance has helped Ukrainians experience increased political freedoms, stronger transparency guarantees, and more economic and social opportunities.

    Today, USAID/Ukraine implements a focused development assistance program to support: more participatory, transparent, and accountable governance; broad-based resilient economic development; and improved health status for Ukrainians.

    USAID also supports U.S. Presidential Initiatives in Global Health and Global Climate Change. '

    Ukraine | U.S. Agency for International Development.....snip~

    Ukraine | U.S. Agency for International Development

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    Re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    Lol continue to spin in favor for Putin.
    This was an armed annexation of part of the Ukraine, no more no less.
    Only in your dreams. You fail to make a Hitler/Putin comparison.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    How would you know how big the military needs to be to defend our country? Defend it against what? They don't send out a flier beforehand, buddy. You have to be prepared for anything from any direction under any circumstances. You don't guess.
    The standard CON answer of 'MORE MORE MORE' is no answer. Empires collapse as they can no longer afford to maintain a wide flung grip on mostly third world nations. We are no different, we can't keep spending money we don't have to be so big the next 14 other nations are not our equal. (and it didn't stop conflict in Africa, Georgia and now the Crimea)

    Exactly, defend it from what? Invasion by ground troops??? Nuke strike??? Cyber attack of our interwebz???

    Don't need a dozen carriers to keep another country from attempting an invasion by sea. Don't need 24 AF fighter squadrons to stop a nuke strike. The M1 Abrams is a sweet tank but does little against a cyber attack.

    Our nation doesn't need a military bigger than most of our allies and enemies combined.

    Oh and you ain't my buddy unless we shared a fighting position one dark and lonely night out in the middle of no damn place...

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    Re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    The standard CON answer of 'MORE MORE MORE' is no answer. Empires collapse as they can no longer afford to maintain a wide flung grip on mostly third world nations. We are no different, we can't keep spending money we don't have to be so big the next 14 other nations are not our equal. (and it didn't stop conflict in Africa, Georgia and now the Crimea)

    Exactly, defend it from what? Invasion by ground troops??? Nuke strike??? Cyber attack of our interwebz???

    Don't need a dozen carriers to keep another country from attempting an invasion by sea. Don't need 24 AF fighter squadrons to stop a nuke strike. The M1 Abrams is a sweet tank but does little against a cyber attack.

    Our nation doesn't need a military bigger than most of our allies and enemies combined.

    Oh and you ain't my buddy unless we shared a fighting position one dark and lonely night out in the middle of no damn place...
    The military isn't what's breaking us. It's half our citizenry's incessant need to sponge off the other half.

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    Re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    [B][COLOR="#800000"]The US AID has been active in Ukraine for some years, trying to undermine Russian influence. This led to the demonstrations in Kiev, during the Olympics, an embarrassment for Putin. The US fomented the conditions for Anti-Russian sentiment, and did little to quell the demonstrations against the elected president, who had Russian support.
    Obama deserves criticism for how he is handling the Russians now, but also how he handled the CIA and USAIS in Ukraine, during his administration. This has been going on for several administrations. Kerry, US Secretary of State, was theoretically in charge of Ukraine CIA operations. "Since 1991, Ukraine’s development trajectory has taken the country from a command to a market-based economy. The United States Government maintains a strategic interest in helping Ukraine’s transition toward greater democracy and a sustainable free market economy. Over the last 20 years USAID has provided $1.8 billion in critical development assistance in support of the Ukrainian people. Much of this development assistance has helped Ukrainians experience increased political freedoms, stronger transparency guarantees, and more economic and social opportunities.
    What is wrong with any of this?

    The Ukraine society is short on community leaders, because Stalin's purges in 1936 killed millions of the community leaders. The society of Ukraine is not well organized, and savvy. The demonstrations in Kiev had the effect of forcing a Russian invasion of Crimea. Not real bright.
    Millions of people throughout the world were murdered by Communists and Nazis yet managed to find 'community leaders'. How would demonstrations in Kiev force an invasion any more than a demonstration in London or Stockholm force an invasion?

    "Since 1991, Ukraine’s development trajectory has taken the country from a command to a market-based economy. The United States Government maintains a strategic interest in helping Ukraine’s transition toward greater democracy and a sustainable free market economy. Over the last 20 years USAID has provided $1.8 billion in critical development assistance in support of the Ukrainian people. Much of this development assistance has helped Ukrainians experience increased political freedoms, stronger transparency guarantees, and more economic and social opportunities.

    Today, USAID/Ukraine implements a focused development assistance program to support: more participatory, transparent, and accountable governance; broad-based resilient economic development; and improved health status for Ukrainians.

    USAID also supports U.S. Presidential Initiatives in Global Health and Global Climate Change. 'Ukraine | U.S. Agency for International Development.....snip~ Ukraine | U.S. Agency for International Development
    Once again, good for America. That's more than the economically incompetent and morally challenged Russians will ever do.

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    Re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    What is wrong with any of this?

    Millions of people throughout the world were murdered by Communists and Nazis yet managed to find 'community leaders'. How would demonstrations in Kiev force an invasion any more than a demonstration in London or Stockholm force an invasion?

    Once again, good for America. That's more than the economically incompetent and morally challenged Russians will ever do.

    Mornin' Grant. I didn't say there was anything wrong with it. Although I haven't gone into it to deeply.

    Ukraine is overly in debt, and no real prospects of solving their financial problems. Also lets not forget Johnny Quest accuse our Intel agencies of dropping the ball.



    U.S. Spy Agencies Deny Failure on Crimea Seizure.....



    "Since the beginning of the political unrest in Ukraine, the CIA has regularly updated policymakers to ensure they have an accurate and timely picture of the unfolding crisis," CIA spokesman Todd Ebitz said. "These updates have included warnings of possible scenarios for a Russian military intervention in Ukraine. Any suggestion otherwise is flat wrong."

    A spokesman for the Director of National Intelligence also denied that the intelligence community failed to see that Russia was going to send troops into Crimea, and added that the intelligence community has "frequently warned" of worrying trends in Russia since President Vladimir Putin came back into office.

    "Reports that the intelligence community was caught off guard by events in Crimea are highly inaccurate," Shawn Turner told NBC News on Wednesday night."

    U.S. Spy Agencies Deny Failure on Crimea Seizure - NBC News

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