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Thread: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

  1. #141
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    re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Its not the Crimea its Russia, and no I don't given the same respect to dictators and invaders that I give to other kinds of people.

    And lets talk about your failing, you say the last President of Ukraine was removed by a coup and thats wrong. Now Russia is annexing Crimea via coup in their Parliament as well, but thats OK? Tell me where are your standards? How is that ok but my position, which is the opposite is not?

    Don't be a hypocrite.
    Your ignorance knows no bounds.

    Let me give you the historical play by play.

    1) Viktor Yanukovych was removed with 328 votes by the Parliament. The Ukrainian Constitution requires 338 votes and a review of the "Supreme Court". Yanukovych was accused of using snipers to kill protestors but even head members of the EU and Foreign Minsters doesn't buy that. Another source.

    2) On February 26th Ukrainian and Russian (Crimeans) clashed in Simferopol over the proposed repeal of Law of Languages by the Ukrainian Parliament. The repeal would have made the Ukrainian the only legal language despite the fact that regional languages were recognized for decades, even in Soviet Russia. There are places in Ukraine where only Hungarian is spoken for official purposes on the local level. Same with Romanian.

    3) After this clash the local Russians in Crimea asked Russia to come into protect them because they didn't trust the new Illegal Government of Ukraine and for good reason as I'll explain later.

    4) Russian send a small protection force. Considering how many troops are located in that part of Russia.

    5) Crimea officially declares a vote.


    Russia sending a protection force in to Crimea is typically the status quo when dealing with outbreaks of violence in European countries. NATO sent forces to the Balkans and provide protection to this day. Certain countries declared independence early and fought a bitter war over it. Kosovo on the other hand relied on NATO protection and "declared" independence a good 9 years into NATO control. US and others had no problem accepting.

    Crimea was always Russian, just Ukrainian in name. Many in Crimea were mad when Khrushchev gave Crimea to Ukraine symbolically in 1954 as a 300 year anniversary gift. And they were mad when they were forced into Ukraine in 1991/1992. Crimea is and will always be Russian. Crimea wants to be apart of Russia and always has. This isn't news to those who know the history.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    What makes these more special than the multitudes of others? Why are they important but others are not? Why do they indicate conspiracy while the others do not?
    I said why. You cut off the response.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    She's doing it to show the protesters that the US supports them in spirit.
    You forgot to mention that the State Department was talking about imposing sanctions. So like I said, she was out there because she was displeased with the decision to reject the EU offer.


    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    That's not spelling it out. That's her telling someone who she thinks is going to be in charge.
    And guess what, he is the prime minister now, not because he was chosen in free and fair elections, but after Yanukovych was violently overthrown. And you can bet, "Yats" is going to do what the EU and Victoria Nuland wants.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    No, not at all. It's absolutely not a coincidence. She purposely is trying to make in-roads with the people that she and her office believe will become the most powerful people in Ukraine. That's her job. If she was secretly making them become the most powerful people, why pose with them in a picture? Kinda defeats the purpose of "secret".
    She's making it known that these are the people that the US wants to be the most powerful people and that Yanukovych is no longer acceptable to the US. If you want to make that clear, you can't keep that a secret. If you want people put in there, you have to let people know who you want in there. It makes sense to be seen publicly with people you want in power, to make it clear who you want in power, while at the same time working in secret to put them in power.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    It's extremely slight evidence. Like...extremely slight. When you consider the number of changes of government that the US doesn't play a part in, and the amount of power players that US diplomats meet with, it means basically nothing.
    When you consider that it happened right after Yanukovych rejected the deal offered by the EU and that the State Department, of which Victoria Nuland is a part, threatened to impose sanctions. When you consider that Victoria Nuland is so displeased she goes out on the streets passing out cookies. Damn, passing out cookies! ROFLMAO!!! These people are something else. Passing out cookies. That's a good one!!! When you consider she is one the phone saying "f*ck in EU" because they are in her way. Then she is pictured with her man "Yats" right before he is made prime minister after the violent overthrow of the government, it's very powerful evidence.

    You can spin, but you can't hide.
    Last edited by MildSteel; 03-17-14 at 01:11 AM.

  3. #143
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    re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Secession is illegal.

    Secession isn't illegal. If it was... we'd be drinking tea and spelling with a u.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    You are a veritable fountain of disinformation, so you're earning your pay. You won't have to back up to your paycheck. Your links are missing, as usual, but don't think I am referring to you as a missing link. Your opinions are noted as just that. No facts. No links. NeoCon dreams of domination and power. Don't drink the water.
    Yeah I was sitting here wondering if the US paid people to do this type of thing. They probably get trained and everything. But that is speculation.

  5. #145
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    re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I said why. You cut off the response.
    But none of them made any sense.

    You forgot to mention that the State Department was talking about imposing sanctions. So like I said, she was out there because she was displeased with the decision to reject the EU offer.
    ...So? You don't think foreign officials the world over meet with locals even when displeased?

    And guess what, he is the prime minister now, not because he was chosen in free and fair elections, but after Yanukovych was violently overthrown. And you can bet, "Yats" is going to do what the EU and Victoria Nuland wants.
    That can be true, or that can be untrue. Either way, it does nothing to refute what I said.

    She's making it known that these are the people that the US wants to be the most powerful people and that Yanukovych is no longer acceptable to the US. If you want to make that clear, you can't keep that a secret. If you want people put in there, you have to let people know who you want in there. It makes sense to be seen publicly with people you want in power, to be seen with people you want in power, while at the same time working in secret to put them in power.
    ...why would you want that known? If they have the power to just install people...why bother? You don't think intelligence services utilize proxies? Lots of foreign affairs officials take photograph with lots of local powerful people, is that what they're doing when they do that?

    When you consider that it happened right after Yanukovych rejected the deal offered by the EU and the State Department, of which Victoria Nuland is a part, threatened to impose sanctions. When you consider that Victoria Nuland is so displeased she goes out on the streets passing out cookies. Damn, passing out cookies! ROFLMAO!!! These people are something else. Passing out cookies. That's a good one!!! When you consider she is one the phone saying "f*ck in EU" because they are in her way. Then she is pictured with her man "Yats" right before he is made prime minister after the violent overthrow of the government, it's very powerful evidence.
    No, it's not. What you have is a State Department official taking a picture with a national figure (normal) and then telling an associate that he was probably going to take power (also normal, her job is to know that). That's all you have.

    You're in danger of your posts delving into conspiracy theory forum fare. You want something to be true, so you just post circumstantial evidence in the hopes you can convince someone. Can I go out on a limb and assume you've never been to an embassy social? Oh, the characters you'll meet. I was never important enough to have my picture taken with anyone, but to you? There would be "powerful evidence" of so many conspiracies!

    You can spin, but you can't hide.
    You can make things up, and no one can prove a negative. What was that Glen Beck thing? "Why has MildSteel never come out and said he didn't commit manslaughter!? Be honest, MildSteel, have you ever denied, before this post, that you committed manslaughter on July 19th 2002?" What you're doing is barely a step up from that. It's just silly, dude.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Can we all agree...

    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    I think we can all agree that we've delved straight into conspiracy theory forum central. Now the question is: are middle class Americans more or less obsessed with conspiracies than lower class Arabs? The greatest debate for the next 10-20 years. Like tastes great vs. less filling.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    But none of them made any sense.
    They made sense, that's why you are trying to spin out of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    ...So? You don't think foreign officials the world over meet with locals even when displeased?
    She isn't just meeting with locals. She is passing out cookies to people who are protesting against Yanukovych. How many pictures can you produce of the Assistant Secretary of State passing out cookies to people who are protesting against the prime minister of a government? I doubt you can produce any

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    That can be true, or that can be untrue. Either way, it does nothing to refute what I said.
    It's part of the refutation of you assertion that the US did not play a substantial role in the installation of Yarsenyi Yatsenyuk as prime minister.


    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    ...why would you want that known? If they have the power to just install people...why bother?
    Because it's part of the process of making them powerful. You appear with them in public. Don't you understand? When people are photographed with powerful people, it makes them appear powerful too. It's a very old device. By appearing with the king, you also appear powerful. It's very simple to understand, unless of course you don't want to understand and/or you want to deceive others about what's really going on.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    No, it's not. What you have is a State Department official taking a picture with a national figure (normal) and then telling an associate that he was probably going to take power (also normal, her job is to know that). That's all you have.
    And it's right after the State Department has threatened to impose sanctions on the Ukraine for not taking up their offer. It's right after Victoria Nuland is pictured passing out cookies to people who are protesting against the prime minister of a democratically elected government. It was taken after she is talking on the phone saying "f*ck the EU" because they are in her way. It was taken after she is on the phone telling a subordinate "Yats is the man." It's all that.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    You want something to be true, so you just post circumstantial evidence in the hopes you can convince someone.
    I have put forward a hypothesis and I have given evidence to support my claim. The evidence is strong, people can believe it or not.

    Do this for me, show me another picture of the Assistant Secretary of State of the United States passing out cookies to people who are protesting against the democratically elected prime minister of a government. Show me just one.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Can I go out on a limb and assume you've never been to an embassy social? Oh, the characters you'll meet. I was never important enough to have my picture taken with anyone, but to you? There would be "powerful evidence" of so many conspiracies!
    So you have been to one? Interesting. So have you, or do you now work for the government? What were you doing there?

    The conspiracy theory stuff is spin. The evidence is there, and it's powerful.

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    re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    I think we can all agree that we've delved straight into conspiracy theory forum central. Now the question is: are middle class Americans more or less obsessed with conspiracies than lower class Arabs? The greatest debate for the next 10-20 years. Like tastes great vs. less filling.
    That's what you call spin. You would make Edward Bernays proud. Notice the "I think we can all agree." It's like you have taken a poll.

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    re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Wow dude, you support dictatorships invading other nations and using criminal means to destroy their governments to turn them into puppets?

    That's sick.
    I didn't mention one word about Obama...
    "Oh no no no, you got me talkin' politics. I didn't wanna. Like I said y'all, I'm just happy to be alive. -- Sheriff Chris Mannix

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