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Thread: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

  1. #131
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    re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    Any election done at the point of a gun is no real election.
    We knew it was going to be rigged.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I can't believe people are naive enough to believe the people were not going to vote that way. They want to join Russia.
    Secession is illegal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Secession is illegal.
    I know this is off-topic, but the fact that secession is illegal says a lot about the world, none of it good.
    If you strike me down, I'll become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.

  4. #134
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    re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Read the news. Watch the TV. Open your mind and see the facts. Until you're prepared to do that, there's nothing anyone can do to help you see the light. Others in this very thread have answered this same question.

    This is like when my kids ask me for an answer and they don't like the answer. Asking the same question over and over again isn't going to garner you the answer you're looking for.

    Russia invaded Crimea with armed force by the Russian military.

    And the long post you keep putting in multiple threads? Dude, you're surprised by a US foreign diplomat taking pictures of them in a foreign country? Meeting with foreign leaders? Handing out cookies to people in the street that are protesting for freedom? Seriously? This is supposed to show some nefarious intent?

    Open your mind. See the facts. Educate yourself regarding International Relations. Each country's IR is based on what's in the best interest for that country. The US having friends in that region is in the best national interest of the US.

    Russia invaded Ukraine. They started in Crimea and have moved now into Ukraine proper. This is an invasion. We don't know if anyone has been killed, but we do know many have been arrested and have disappeared.

    Any election conducted under those conditions cannot by any reasonable standard be trusted to be the true will of the people who are under the threat of force.

    The vote was 95%? Only 58% of the population is ethnic Russian. There's no reasonable way to believe that 100% of that 58% would vote the same way. And even if they did, that means that 88% of the remaining ethnic groups would have had to vote the same way, if they were allowed to vote at all????

    Do you know if the non-ethnic Russians were allowed to vote? And what percentage did vote if they did at all?

    Seriously... let's all use logical thinking about this.
    Don't read the news and don''t watch the TV. Go find the news on foreign news outlets on the Internet. The Mainstream "Brainstream" Media is just a whitewash for propaganda purposes like in the old days of the USSR.
    Russia did not invade Crimea. 26,000 troops were in the Country as agreed by Treaty. The troops are required to help these people and they did.
    Nuland and the CIA through USAID and the NGOs established to organize rebellion and insurrection and train protestors and supply food to protestors is documented and represents the evil forces operating in Kiev. Even worse than Yanukovych.
    Troops protected the Crimea voters so destabillzing elements from Kiev couldn't bring chaos, firebombs and death to Crimea.
    I'm pretty sure the troops in Crimea were not Academi, but in Kiev that is a different story. Academi (Blackwater), mercenaries.

  5. #135
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    re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    It's certainly not absolute proof, because I would venture to say there's thousands of pictures (with digital technology, that's a low ball estimate) of Americans with notable political and military personalities in basically every nation. There's literally hundreds of thousands of pictures with various foreign ministry members meeting with local/national/regional persons of note the world over. That, too, is proof of nothing and barely even evidence. The US certainly tries to promote change in its favor the world over- just like any other nation but with usually greater capability. But that doesn't mean every change the world over is at the behest of the US. And simply saying "Well, they've done it before" really isn't a tenable argument.
    I have conceded that by themselves the pictures are not absolute proof. And although it is certainly true that hundreds of thousands of pictures with various foreign officials is meaningless, these pictures are certainly full of meaning. First of all Victoria Nuland is pictured passing out cookies to protesters right after Yanukovych rejected a EU deal in favor of one offered by Russia. Do you think she is passing out cookies just because she's a sweet little old lady? Hell no! It demonstrates that she is not pleased with the decision. Next of all, there is a call, which she had to apologize for, where she is clearly telling a subordinate to "f*ck the EU." Why? Because she doesn't want them in the way of what she's trying to do. Then she says "Yats is the man." Damn!!! That's practically spelling it out. Then she is pictured with not only with Yarsenyi Yatsenyuk, but Vitali Klitschko, and Oleh Tyahnybok as well. This is after she has said

    I think Yats is the guy who's got the economic experience, the governing experience. He's the... what he needs is Klitsch and Tyahnybok on the outside.
    There she is with all three. Just a coincidence? Then guess who just so happens to become Prime Minister of Ukraine? None other than Yarsenyi Yatsenyuk. That's right, good old Yats. Then when you take that in the context of the known fact that the United States engages in the overthrow of leaders of countries that it doesn't like, it is very, very powerful evidence. You would have to be stupid to not at least admit that it is very possible that the US played a strong role in the installation of Yarsenyi Yatsenyuk as prime minister.
    Last edited by MildSteel; 03-17-14 at 12:35 AM.

  6. #136
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    re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Don't read the news
    Great advice, as always.

    Russia did not invade Crimea. 26,000 troops were in the Country as agreed by Treaty.
    By this logic the US cannot invade South Korea.

    I'm pretty sure the troops in Crimea were not Academi, but in Kiev that is a different story. Academi (Blackwater), mercenaries.
    You have absolutely no idea either way, clearly, but you also seem to be exhibiting an absolute ignorance on the way military contractors work.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    I have conceded that by themselves the pictures are not absolute proof. And although it is certainly true that hundreds of thousands of pictures with various foreign officials is meaningless, these pictures are certainly full of meaning.
    What makes these more special than the multitudes of others? Why are they important but others are not? Why do they indicate conspiracy while the others do not?

    First of all Victoria Nuland is pictured passing out cookies to protesters right after Yanukovych rejected a EU deal in favor of one offered by Russia. Do you think she is passing out cookies just because she's a sweet little old lady? Hell no! It demonstrates that she is not pleased with the decision.
    She's doing it to show the protesters that the US supports them in spirit. If the US was supporting them via the CIA, what would the benefit of doing that be?

    Next of all, there is a call, which she had to apologize for, where she is clearly telling a subordinate to "f*ck the EU." Why? Because she doesn't want them in the way of what she's trying to do. Then she says "Yats is the man." Damn!!! That's practically spelling it out. Then she is pictured with not only with Yarsenyi Yatsenyuk, but Vitali Klitschko, and Oleh Tyahnybok as well. This is after she has said
    That's not spelling it out. That's her telling someone who she thinks is going to be in charge. And then her trying to cozy up to them. Doing what a diplomat is supposed to do, in other words. Would it have been better if she were wrong? Is that what US diplomats should do now? Try to be wrong, in case their opinions are leaked at a later date, because people on the internet might think there was a conspiracy?

    There she is with all three. Just a coincidence?
    No, not at all. It's absolutely not a coincidence. She purposely is trying to make in-roads with the people that she and her office believe will become the most powerful people in Ukraine. That's her job. If she was secretly making them become the most powerful people, why pose with them in a picture? Kinda defeats the purpose of "secret".

    Then guess who just so happens to become Prime Minister of Ukraine? None other than Yarsenyi Yatsenyuk. That's right, good old Yats. Then when you take that in the context of the known fact that the United States engages in the overthrow of leaders of countries that it doesn't like, it is very, very powerful evidence. You would have to be stupid to not at least admit that it is very possible that the US played a strong role in the installation of Yarsenyi Yatsenyuk as prime minister.
    It's extremely slight evidence. Like...extremely slight. When you consider the number of changes of government that the US doesn't play a part in, and the amount of power players that US diplomats meet with, it means basically nothing. US diplomats meet with all the senior members of both of Taiwan's major political groups, as well as their minor groups. As well as their military. The same with Japan. South Korea. Germany. France. India. Malaysia. Indonesia. And many more (most, actually...of course they're not meeting with any other parties leadership in China, for example, for obvious reasons). If and when there's unrest there, and a diplomat makes a phone call and predicts who's gonna be next in power...is that all now "very, very powerful evidence" of the US-created coup?


    To you, I guess, it will be.
    Last edited by OldWorldOrder; 03-17-14 at 12:44 AM.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by DashingAmerican View Post
    Like I said, the ballots only had two options: Join Russia or Secede from Ukraine.

    I believe that a lot of the people wanted to join Russia before, but the rest felt that it was the only non-violent thing to do.
    It was clear before the referendum that a majority of the people their identify with Russia. And BTW, there is a substantial number of people in the rest of Ukraine that feel that way as well. Everyone knew how this was going to turn out. And it's not because someone was pointing a gun to their head making them do it, it's because many of the people there just feel that way. Although, it's possible that what you say about some doing it to avoid trouble may be true. But I haven't seen any objective evidence to support that.

  9. #139
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    re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Great advice, as always.



    By this logic the US cannot invade South Korea.



    You have absolutely no idea either way, clearly, but you also seem to be exhibiting an absolute ignorance on the way military contractors work.
    You are a veritable fountain of disinformation, so you're earning your pay. You won't have to back up to your paycheck. Your links are missing, as usual, but don't think I am referring to you as a missing link. Your opinions are noted as just that. No facts. No links. NeoCon dreams of domination and power. Don't drink the water.

  10. #140
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    re: Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    You are a veritable fountain of disinformation
    You make assumptions, present them as facts, and link from blogs that don't even support your assumptions. So that's funny. Tell me more about "Academi" and what you know about CIA agents lol

    What links was I supposed to post there? Do you not know about troop strength in ROK? About military contractors?

    Or is that just another phrase you use when you don't know what else to say?

    "Uhhhhhh...uh...talking points!....uhhh...no links!"
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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