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Thread: Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:76]

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    Re: Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    Apparently not, as you are still looking for a study to prove something.

    That is an amazing observation on your part. I do not know if you know this but reliable data from the future is exceptionally hard to obtain and that is why known facts from the past are used as data and the past is history as they say.

    But conclusions based on verifiable data are intelligent and reasonable, not to mention that you haven't been able to show any errors in methodology or the data used.
    Not necessarily. Conclusions very often don't match their data. I have no qualms with the data they did present, but the data they did present isn't enough to suggest what they are suggesting. Yes we know the population is set to grow, and we know we will require more food and energy. Where is their data on whether or not we are meeting this food and energy demand?

    And while we are on the subject, how do the authors suggest we meet those demands? What are the positions of the authors' on things like GMO's and nuclear energy? Where is their data that a green revolution can solve the problems they presented? What would said green revolution even consist of?

    You see a study with vague conclusions based on limited data does not constitute "intelligent and reasonable," at least by my expectations. When I see the word study, I expect a body of work that adds something to the conversation. This fails to do that.

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    Re: Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    There is no way "off this rock". The sooner we grasp that fact the better.
    Yes, we probably only have a few hundred thousand years of resouces left, assuming nothing is renewable. We better think of something, fast! Well, slow.
    "We have met the enemy and they are ours..." -- Oliver Hazard Perry
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    Re: Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by StringBean View Post
    Ants have been around a lot longer than human beings. If civilization collapses and we die out, they will still be around. Perhaps the lesson to learn is live within the means of your environment?
    Kind of like drones? Just do the same thing, over and over. No advancement. Nah.
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    Re: Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Not necessarily. Conclusions very often don't match their data.
    Specifically to this study or in general?

    I have no qualms with the data they did present, but the data they did present isn't enough to suggest what they are suggesting.
    What do you feel is missing in order for the conclusion to be more robustly supported?

    Yes we know the population is set to grow, and we know we will require more food and energy.
    And that doers not even need a study.

    Where is their data on whether or not we are meeting this food and energy demand?
    Have you reviewed the study and can competently say that they missed something?

    And while we are on the subject, how do the authors suggest we meet those demands?
    That was not the scope of the study as it is clearly stated in there introduction.

    What are the positions of the authors' on things like GMO's and nuclear energy?
    A study of this nature can only utilize facts and facts are only part of history. It would take a different study based on projections to draw possible conclusions how any of your proposed variables would impact the future.

    Where is their data that a green revolution can solve the problems they presented?
    See above.

    What would said green revolution even consist of?
    How could mathematicians guesstimate that? It is not their line of expertise. They could take possible projections made available if those projections were based on reliable sources.

    You see a study with vague conclusions based on limited data does not constitute "intelligent and reasonable," at least by my expectations.
    Yet you are unable to point out a single flaw in the data they used or the methodology.

    When I see the word study, I expect a body of work that adds something to the conversation. This fails to do that.
    To you perhaps, but that does not negate the validity of the study or its conclusion.

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    Re: Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    Specifically to this study or in general?

    What do you feel is missing in order for the conclusion to be more robustly supported?

    And that doers not even need a study.

    Have you reviewed the study and can competently say that they missed something?

    That was not the scope of the study as it is clearly stated in there introduction.

    A study of this nature can only utilize facts and facts are only part of history. It would take a different study based on projections to draw possible conclusions how any of your proposed variables would impact the future.

    See above.

    How could mathematicians guesstimate that? It is not their line of expertise. They could take possible projections made available if those projections were based on reliable sources.

    Yet you are unable to point out a single flaw in the data they used or the methodology.

    To you perhaps, but that does not negate the validity of the study or its conclusion.
    Did you even click the link and read the study in question? I'm starting to get the impression you have not.

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    Re: Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Oops. Hate when that happens. Let them reap what the have sown. Die, if that is all they earn for themselves.
    Really? This sociopathic mentality is truly reprehensible. You obviously realize that you're condemning your fellow man to death because of what - that they're unemployed? You must not give a fuÁk that the U.S. has been enduring the worst economic downturn (for the last half decade) since the Great Depression. It is not the average Joe's fault that the U.S. (and world) economy tanked. So instead of rallying against your fellow man who is downtrodden, the logical, moral and ethical thing to rally for is job creation across the board, government innovation and investment and incentives to large U.S. corporations that sell their wares in America but employ the majority (or all) of their workers away from our shores.

    Besides, I don't know what you do for a living or if you're even in the workforce, but if you are, it is really quite moronic to condemn people you see as disadvantaged, like the unemployed. Why? There is no such thing as 'job security' anymore. Hell, not even in the U.S. military is there security that a soldier, sailor, airmen or Marine will retain their position from week-to-week. So if you're working, consider yourself lucky but realize that that could change in an instant in today's economic scene.

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    Re: Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Just a 'few' items in this story to stir up discussion



    Items to discuss

    " high levels of economic stratification are linked directly to overconsumption of resources"

    under conditions "closely reflecting the reality of the world today... we find that collapse is difficult to avoid."

    how do we humans " reduce economic inequality" and also find a way " to dramatically reduce resource consumption "??

    work by KPMG and the UK's Government Office for Science shows that resource exploitation could create a "perfect storm" of civilisational-ending crises by 2030.
    What's going on now and the probable future determined off today's realities is the epitome of the glass half-full/empty analogy. There is cause for optimism and pessimism. But when everything that is in conflict with humanity today is looked at from a futuristic perspective, the half-full/empty scenario is played out quite significantly: either our pressing problems are dealt with/solved/avoided/etc or humanity suffers the consequences that have been known to some of us for some time.

    One thing, I believe, is absolutely certain: we will continue, as a collective, to have an over-reliance on technology - in particular, technology to advance our lives and solve our various problems temporarily - without undergoing the necessary and fundamental changes to truly conquer the behemoth challenges that are with us now and those that lie before us in the not too far off horizon.

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    Re: Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Did you even click the link and read the study in question? I'm starting to get the impression you have not.
    I did, but I see you have not answered any of my questions.

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    Re: Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jango View Post
    What's going on now and the probable future determined off today's realities is the epitome of the glass half-full/empty analogy.
    I never liked that analogy, it really leaves too many questions unanswered. The best approach is to establish how many ml. or oz. of water are in the glass and decide what to do with it.

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    Re: Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    The NASA mission has now morphed from running the national space shuttle service to conducting income inequality studies? It may be time to defund this bunch of "experts".
    NASA has done us a bunch of good technologically. It's time to kick them out of the social sciences and get them involved in the science of space exploration. Obama changed their mission as one of the first things when he got into office. Democrats claim they are the party of science, primarliy because some social conservatives believe the world is six thousand years old. While I'll give them that one, they aren't the party of science. They are the party of using junk science to force political and social change. I would defund NASA as long as they are social scientists but fully support them if they got back to real science.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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