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Thread: Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:76]

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    Re: Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    The ultimate failure of conservatism and libertarianism can be found right here.
    Maybe American libertarianism, but that is far from representative of the left libertarian (the original libertarian) movement.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

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    Re: Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Not really true.

    Lives were short, but that was mainly parasites and disease.

    On average, primitive people worked about 20 hours a week.

    Original affluent society - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Just wiki, but i've read a lot on the subject over the years.

    People in resource rich areas work less, those in less rich ateas more, but the whole "nasty, brutish and short" was salve for colonialists consciences. Not objective 7ruth.
    All false.

    The original affluent society is nonsensical bunk.

    The fact is regardless of availability of resources primitive peoples worked sunup to sunset every day of their lives just to stay alive.

    They may not have known any better way and therefore took it in stride but they lived in what would now be considered misery and poverty.

    Lives were short due to never ending brutal work to get food. The never ending warfare which accompanies such ways of living. Disease and parasites not to mention no modern medicine which led to massively higher infant mortality and death from what today are minor injuries and illnesses.

    The whole point of the original affluent society is to paint a picture that capitalism started poverty which is an easily proven falsehood. The idea of primitive peoples leading such idealic lives is proven revisionist fiction

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    Re: Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    It is really astounding that the best counter arguments are really nothing more than ignorant partisan talking points or outright fabrications.
    Why can't anyone offer a criticism or counterarguments based on the merits or lack of, of the study or the opposite, the merits of overconsumption and large economic inequality? After all 'let them eat cake' has world so well in the past.
    Overconsumption and economic inequality are in fact entirely subjective and no scientific data or evidence proves they are harmful.

    That is why such counterarguments are not needed. All one needs to know is that these ideas are political beleifs and not scientific theory or studies and therefore the burden of proof is on those asserting such ideas, proof and evidence is that which they fail to provide.

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    Educator Soupnazi630's Avatar
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    Re: Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Do you assume we need an earthlike planet to move out of the gravity well?

    Energy is ridiculously abundant in space, and the moon has water (oxygen/fuel) and gravity (to slow bone loss)

    And 100,000 years of raw materials at projected growth rates in the asteroid belt.

    Doesn't seem "impossible" to me.
    Um no water food fuel and oxygen would have to be sent to the moon and asteroids.

    They have yet to find vioable sources of these necessary resources on the moon or elsewhere. The raw materials of the asteroid belt ( which we are centuries away from being capable of exploiting ) are mainly specific minerals.

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    Re: Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:

    Should we start trying to find a can of Ubik?

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    Re: Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by Soupnazi630 View Post
    All false.

    The original affluent society is nonsensical bunk.

    The fact is regardless of availability of resources primitive peoples worked sunup to sunset every day of their lives just to stay alive.

    They may not have known any better way and therefore took it in stride but they lived in what would now be considered misery and poverty.

    Lives were short due to never ending brutal work to get food. The never ending warfare which accompanies such ways of living. Disease and parasites not to mention no modern medicine which led to massively higher infant mortality and death from what today are minor injuries and illnesses.

    The whole point of the original affluent society is to paint a picture that capitalism started poverty which is an easily proven falsehood. The idea of primitive peoples leading such idealic lives is proven revisionist fiction
    Anthropology, dude. Study it.

    Historical fact doesn't threaten your precious global finance capitalism.

    We have more comfort and toys. We work more for it. It is what it is.

    The primitive lifestyle ship has sailed. We exceeded the natural carrying capacity long ago.

    Polynesians alone belie your premise. They lived in abundance. Thousands of islands and the bounty of tropical seas.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
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    Re: Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by Soupnazi630 View Post
    Um no water food fuel and oxygen would have to be sent to the moon and asteroids.

    They have yet to find vioable sources of these necessary resources on the moon or elsewhere. The raw materials of the asteroid belt ( which we are centuries away from being capable of exploiting ) are mainly specific minerals.
    Moon has water. That's water, air and fuel.

    Luddites is funny. Do you refuse to fly because folks like you considered it impossible?
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    If things are really that bad, then we have a very good reason to cut the strings and let the lazy, useless and non-productive among us. More reasons to end welfare. Let natural selection take them.
    I say start with the retired military with their generous pensions and benefits leeching off of us working folks.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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    Re: Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    I say start with the retired military with their generous pensions and benefits leeching off of us working folks.
    Do you know how much military retirees, especially enlisted retirees actually make in pensions? Or what benefits they receive? Or how many of them actually retire and are not "working folks" themselves?

    Would you accept cutting your retirement benefits also to pay for greater welfare benefits? A pensions is something that is earned, not just given.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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    Re: Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:

    One other point worth mentioning is that the study does not specify between whether a collapse would be regional or global. Past collapses have been regional and not global in nature, though the world was not interconnected to the degree that it is today.

    One can't discount the possibility that a relatively resource rich society with sufficient power to enforce its decision might not "disconnect" from the world at large. Nations have often acted in their interests and such a move would not be too far removed from the emergent concept of resource nationalism that has appeared in recent years. Already, China is slowly reducing the rare earth minerals it will permit to be exported. A more robust move to avert a collapse might entail some country's ending exports of its resources be it food, certain minerals, etc.

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