Page 13 of 20 FirstFirst ... 31112131415 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 130 of 195

Thread: Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:76]

  1. #121
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last Seen
    01-22-17 @ 09:27 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    4,136

    Re: Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    Faulty link, at least on my end.

  2. #122
    Guru
    sawdust's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Seen
    03-04-16 @ 09:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    3,177

    Re: Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    Your link doesn't work however if the article from the guardian is correct in this assessment"
    Noting that warnings of 'collapse' are often seen to be fringe or controversial, the study attempts to make sense of compelling historical data showing that "the process of rise-and-collapse is actually a recurrent cycle found throughout history." Cases of severe civilisational disruption due to "precipitous collapse - often lasting centuries - have been quite common."
    And if this quotation is correct,
    "The fall of the Roman Empire, and the equally (if not more) advanced Han, Mauryan, and Gupta Empires, as well as so many advanced Mesopotamian Empires, are all testimony to the fact that advanced, sophisticated, complex, and creative civilizations can be both fragile and impermanent."
    Then social sciences have indeed payed a role in the study.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

  3. #123
    Sage
    jmotivator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,685

    Re: Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    Yeah, that link is still broken.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

  4. #124
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last Seen
    01-22-17 @ 09:27 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    4,136

    Re: Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    So the bottom line is that you can to cite specific flaws only your dislike.

    You misunderstood not only the study but its purpose. It was not meant to be a crystal ball and predict events and the time when they will take place. Any one with a bit of common sense and a basic knowledge of history can conclude that civilizations or segments of, and social orders came into existence and if they were viable they rose, reached an apex and then declined. What was in question is the existence of common causes considering the various time frames in history and their specific socio-economic conditions. The mathematical modeling used in this study found the common causes that transcend the various times and particular conditions and concluded that under current trends the collapse of the present system is also possible to a high degree.
    Well this is the fourth time I have tried to respond to this post, considering DP is doing everything in its power to make sure that my post not only will not go through but will be lost in the process so excuse me if this is far more brief then I intended.

    A mathematical model is only as good as the variables it is based on. Considering the 5 variables that they examined for this study are highly speculative in the sense that it is impossible to know when and/or if any of them will ever reach a tipping point, it can be intelligently and reasonably deduced that any conclusion based on said variables would be highly speculative as well.

    They simply cannot say that a collapse of the current system is possible or even likely in the near future. In order to accomplish such a statement, it requires the assumption that each of these variables A. has a tipping point and B. technology won't be able to alleviate said concerns as it has been doing for the last two or so centuries. Hence why studies of this nature are considered "fringe," as it stated in the OP.

  5. #125
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last Seen
    01-22-17 @ 09:27 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    4,136

    Re: Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    Your link doesn't work however if the article from the guardian is correct in this assessment"

    And if this quotation is correct,

    Then social sciences have indeed payed a role in the study.
    It says its right in the article.
    The research project is based on a new cross-disciplinary 'Human And Nature DYnamical' (HANDY) model, led by applied mathematician Safa Motesharrei of the US National Science Foundation-supported National Socio-Environmental Synthesis Center, in association with a team of natural and social scientists. The study based on the HANDY model has been accepted for publication in the peer-reviewed Elsevier journal, Ecological Economics.
    Not to mention the journal they mention is an "interdisciplinary" journal *cough cough* social science.

  6. #126
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Over the edge...
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    14,163

    Re: Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Faulty link, at least on my end.
    Sorry, it must be at your end as it works if I click on it, so does the first one that was posted. Try later...

    From the title page:

    A Minimal Model for Human and NatureInteraction
    Safa Motesharrei
    School of Public Policy
    University of Maryland
    Jorge Rivas
    Department of Political Science
    University of Minnesota
    Eugenia Kalnay
    Department of Atmospheric and Oceanic Sciences
    University of Maryland
    November 13, 2012
    Abstract
    There are widespread concerns that current trends in population and resource-use areunsustainable, but the possibilities of an overshoot and collapse remain unclear and contro-versial. Collapses have occurred frequently in the past five thousand years, and are oftenfollowed by centuries of economic, intellectual, and population decline. Many different nat-ural and social phenomena have been invoked to explain specific collapses, but a generalexplanation remains elusive. Two important features seem to appear across societies thathave collapsed: (1) Ecological Strain and (2) Economic Stratification.
    In this paper, the structure of a new model and several simulated scenarios that offersignificant implications are explained. The model has just four equations that describe theevolution of the populations of Elites and Commoners, Nature, and accumulated Wealth.Mechanisms leading to collapse are discussed and the measure “Carrying Capacity” is devel-oped and defined. The model suggests that the estimation of Carrying Capacity is a practicalmeans for early detection of a collapse. Collapse can be avoided, and population can reach asteady state at the maximum carrying capacity, if the rate of depletion of nature is reducedto a sustainable level, and if resources are distributed equitably.

  7. #127
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Over the edge...
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    14,163

    Re: Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    Your link doesn't work however if the article from the guardian is correct in this assessment"

    And if this quotation is correct,

    Then social sciences have indeed payed a role in the study.
    The study was NOT done at NASA and it was done by a mathematician. It is based on some mathematical models with various scenarios.

  8. #128
    Guru
    sawdust's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Seen
    03-04-16 @ 09:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    3,177

    Re: Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    The study was NOT done at NASA and it was done by a mathematician. It is based on some mathematical models with various scenarios.
    I don't like nit pickers and please excuse me if I come across as one. I haven't read the study, don't intend to, your link doesn't work and all I have to go by is the article that was posted on the first page of this thread. This is the title of the article.
    Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?
    We can both read. Granted it was done by a mathematician and funded by NASA.

    When Obama took office he directed NASA to scale back it's efforts in space exploration and direct itself toward social goals. The director said his mandate from Obama was to get kids enthused about science and math, engage in Muslim outreach pointing out important contributions they've made to science and expand our international relationships. Now, I have no clue what the latter two have to do with space exploration but I have no clue about most of Obama's ideas.
    "Bolden: I am here in the region - its sort of the first anniversary of President Barack Obama's visit to Cairo - and his speech there when he gave what has now become known as Obama's "Cairo Initiative" where he announced that he wanted this to become a new beginning of the relationship between the United States and the Muslim world. When I became the NASA Administrator - before I became the NASA Administrator - he charged me with three things: One was that he wanted me to re-inspire children to want to get into science and math, that he wanted me to expand our international relationships, and third, and perhaps foremost, he wanted me to find a way to reach out to the Muslim world and engage much more with predominantly Muslim nations to help them feel good about their historic contribution to science, math, and engineering."
    Charlie Bolden: Stealth Middle East Diplomat? - NASA Watch

    Putting everything in context, Obama uses most of the government to promote his social goals so it's pretty easy to see why Director Bolden would fund a study done by a mathematician who used social scientists to tell us that industrial society was going to send us to hell in a hand basket. It's just more incongruence from this administration.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

  9. #129
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Michigan
    Last Seen
    01-28-15 @ 06:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    5,587
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    A very large number of them are the ones who voted in the socialist minded liberals that are responsible for the economic problems in the US. It is the Liberal agenda that has been forcing jobs overseas and making American made products unaffordable. I think it is great when so many liberals and union workers are left unemployed by outsourcing that their own policies brought about.

    Also, I believe that very few would actually die. Survival instinct is a very strong motivator. After a few do die from their laziness, the rest will get the message and we will see them start taking jobs that they have scorned because it is easier and more comfortable to live off the rest of us.

    Finally, it is morally reprehensible to enslave others. By saying that non-producers have the "right" to what the producers make and earn is making those producers slaves. When you punish achievement and reward laziness and non-achievement, nothing good at all can come of it. It is not sociopathic to place the wellbeing of the majority ahead of the wellbeing of the few, especially when the few are quite often in their predicament due to their own choices and their own laziness. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
    The financial crisis that plagues us today started in September 2008. Granted, President Obama hasn't fixed the problem, but it did not start on his watch. And from a solid starting point, President George W. Bush was a victim of a previous Republican administration's policy: President Reagan and deregulation. Sure, President Clinton's policies contributed greatly to the overall problem as well.

    So, as history shows, this *really* is not a partisan issue, similar to 9/11, so don't make it one.

    And really, it is the year 2014, one would think that the mentality of 'sink or swim' would have stayed with the early 20th century and below given that various U.S. policies that have since become cornerstones of our nation are there to protect the disadvantaged. Why? For one, because it is the humane thing to do, you know, since we're dealing with fellow human beings.

  10. #130
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    The Republic of Texas.
    Last Seen
    11-15-17 @ 11:40 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    5,647

    Re: Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jango View Post
    The financial crisis that plagues us today started in September 2008. Granted, President Obama hasn't fixed the problem, but it did not start on his watch. And from a solid starting point, President George W. Bush was a victim of a previous Republican administration's policy: President Reagan and deregulation. Sure, President Clinton's policies contributed greatly to the overall problem as well.

    So, as history shows, this *really* is not a partisan issue, similar to 9/11, so don't make it one.

    And really, it is the year 2014, one would think that the mentality of 'sink or swim' would have stayed with the early 20th century and below given that various U.S. policies that have since become cornerstones of our nation are there to protect the disadvantaged. Why? For one, because it is the humane thing to do, you know, since we're dealing with fellow human beings.
    Right. Reagan passed those laws himself. Congress had nothing to do with it? Same with Bush? And yes, I can blame the idiot liberals. Republicans had a total of 4 years in the last 50+ that they had control of the house, the senate and the presidency. Since Dems had total or partial control for the other 46+ years, logically, they are the culprits. Further, many of policies that have driven the oppression of the economy are things that are cornerstones of their party.

    The problem with deregulation is that it was once regulated. After deregulation, you have to have capitol input in order raise competition.

    Humane for whom? And how humane is creating dependence? Humane for everyone else when trying to care for those lazy and worthless causes total economic collapse? Welfare is not humane to the recipients or to the country as a whole.

    The choice of welfare over work is often a rational decision based on economic incentives. Empirical studies confirm that welfare is a disincentive for work. For example, an analysis of interstate variation in labor force participation by economists Richard Vedder, Lowell Gallaway, and Robert Lawson found that such participation declined as welfare benefits increased.33 Similarly, Robert Moffitt of Brown University found that the work effort of welfare recipients was reduced by as much as 30 percent. - See more at: TANF and Federal Welfare | Downsizing the Federal Government

    A Maryland National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) report concluded that "the ready access to a lifetime of welfare and free social service programs is a major contributory factor to the crime problems we face today."39 The NAACP's conclusion is confirmed by additional academic research. For example, research by M. Anne Hill and June O'Neill shows that a 50-percent increase in welfare and food stamp benefits led to a 117-percent increase in the crime rate among young black men.40 - See more at: TANF and Federal Welfare | Downsizing the Federal Government

    Funny, the NAACP still endorses welfare friendly candidates even though they complain that more black men go to prison than to college.

    How humane was it for the victims of all those crimes? How humane is it for all those people who suffer the depredations brought on by welfare?
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

Page 13 of 20 FirstFirst ... 31112131415 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •