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Thread: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group[W:157]

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    Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac didn't build houses, didn't sell houses, don't represent a take over of the housing industry. All they did was to guarantee mortgages and make it easier for people to buy houses. Those two programs have been around a very long time. I bought my first house with a Fanny Mae loan back in '69.

    The link between those two programs and the housing crash seems to me to be a bit tenuous to say the least.

    Again: Government programs does not equal socialism.

    You point out that they Guaranteed the loans that people couldn't afford, but then say the relationship between that and the crash is "tenuous"? yeah, I don't think it is....
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac didn't build houses, didn't sell houses, don't represent a take over of the housing industry. All they did was to guarantee mortgages and make it easier for people to buy houses. Those two programs have been around a very long time. I bought my first house with a Fanny Mae loan back in '69.
    Is it the politicians place to guarantee mortgages? What could go wrong inevitably did go wrong, as all socialist iideas do. The'bubble' was never about houses, it was about money.
    The link between those two programs and the housing crash seems to me to be a bit tenuous to say the least.
    Not at all. The history is there and what began as a small idea inevitaby turned into a huge industry where 'friends of government' pocketed millions and the middle class lost.
    Again: Government programs does not equal socialism.
    All government programs lead to larger government programs, a larger bureaucracy, more laws to prop up these flawed programs, fewer personal freedoms, more corruption within the system, and so on. It was ever thus, and examples are everywhere.

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    Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    I'm a pragmatist.

    Political labels are notoriously inaccurate and misleading.

    Considering that under our present system confiscation of wealth and redistributing it to corporations and banks, such as we saw with TARP and other programs, is wrong.

    If it must be redistributed, I would rather it be returned to the people.

    I would rather it not be redistributed at all, but if the govt is going to do that, it's more appropriate that the people get it, not the mismanaged banks and crooks on Wall Street.
    I agree that your self described label of libertarian is inaccurate and misleading.

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    Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Redistributing wealth "to the people" is another political scam designed for those who really believe that the playing field is going to be leveled and that the government will do it.

    "If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed".-Adolf Hitler

    A mindless slogan like "Hope and Change", which is the slogan of all politicians, demonstrated that idea perfectly, and the American electorate bought into it twice.
    Absolutely. Wealth redistribution is the confiscation of the fruits of ones labor by the govt, to be given to others for political favor.

    Not many things could be more antithetical to libertarianism.

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    Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You point out that they Guaranteed the loans that people couldn't afford, but then say the relationship between that and the crash is "tenuous"? yeah, I don't think it is....
    The link is between the mortgage lenders who made loans to people who couldn't afford them, then sold the paper to Fannie and freddy as good loans. The reason that worked is lack of government oversight, not government programs.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    The link is between the mortgage lenders who made loans to people who couldn't afford them, then sold the paper to Fannie and freddy as good loans. The reason that worked is lack of government oversight, not government programs.
    But who encouraged loans to people who couldn't afford them? It certainly wasn't the banks. In fact a noted Community Organizer was one of those who sued banks for discriminating against minorities, forcing the banks to make risky loans.

    Lack of government foresight is commonplace and expected. The first job of government, and its bureaucracy, is to protect themselves and cover their asses. Their interest in the people comes well after that, and only at election time.

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    Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    But who encouraged loans to people who couldn't afford them? It certainly wasn't the banks. In fact a noted Community Organizer was one of those who sued banks for discriminating against minorities, forcing the banks to make risky loans.

    Lack of government foresight is commonplace and expected. The first job of government, and its bureaucracy, is to protect themselves and cover their asses. Their interest in the people comes well after that, and only at election time.
    It's not about loans to minorities, but about loans to people who could not afford them. If Fannie and Freddy are the problem, why didn't the housing crash happen sooner? Both programs were in place decades before the housing crash.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    It's not about loans to minorities, but about loans to people who could not afford them. If Fannie and Freddy are the problem, why didn't the housing crash happen sooner? Both programs were in place decades before the housing crash.
    Here's where Barrack Obama, among others, sued Citibank for not approving enough mortgages to Black people, so this was a matter of race.
    Buycks-Roberson v. Citibank Fed. Sav. Bank | Civil Rights Litigation Clearinghouse

    Obama pushed banks to give subprime loans to Chicago blacks | The Daily Caller

    My take, right or wrong, is that the banks are in the business to make money while also being cautious. Such was their reputation. I doubt they were refusing loans to Blacks because of their color, but because of their financial stability. Whites and Hispanics must also demonstrate that they can repay loans, and all of us know, whatever our color, how important are credit history is.

    This was just one of the examples of government getting involved where they had no business. Even Black owned banks were refusing loans to many of these people.

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    Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Here's where Barrack Obama, among others, sued Citibank for not approving enough mortgages to Black people, so this was a matter of race.
    Buycks-Roberson v. Citibank Fed. Sav. Bank | Civil Rights Litigation Clearinghouse

    Obama pushed banks to give subprime loans to Chicago blacks | The Daily Caller

    My take, right or wrong, is that the banks are in the business to make money while also being cautious. Such was their reputation. I doubt they were refusing loans to Blacks because of their color, but because of their financial stability. Whites and Hispanics must also demonstrate that they can repay loans, and all of us know, whatever our color, how important are credit history is.

    This was just one of the examples of government getting involved where they had no business. Even Black owned banks were refusing loans to many of these people.
    Again: The housing crash was not due to black people buying homes. Neither the black lawyer/community organizer who sued to stop discrimination, nor the color of the skin of the home buyers had a thing to do with the housing crisis.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Redistributing wealth "to the people" is another political scam designed for those who really believe that the playing field is going to be leveled and that the government will do it.

    "If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed".-Adolf Hitler

    A mindless slogan like "Hope and Change", which is the slogan of all politicians, demonstrated that idea perfectly, and the American electorate bought into it twice.

    Yes, your point about the frequent retelling of a lie is spot on. The federal government and its lapdog media practice that 24/7 in a number of areas.

    As for my pragmatist self, if they are going to redistribute my tax dollars, and they are, I would prefer that instead of giving it to Wall Street and the Pentagon to waste and plunder, that they give some back to the people. By way of infrastructure would be fine by me.

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