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Thread: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group[W:157]

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    Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    While they invade another country? Cry me a river.
    1.They were already there.
    2.The people there voted break away from the Ukraine.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

    Quote Originally Posted by loader View Post
    I hope people like you, understand the danger. Sooner or later. But it is important that it wasn't too late.
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    Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Kennedy was a bit less naive than Obama, but he still got us into Vietnam, and lets not forget the bay of pigs.
    He didn't get us into a war with Cuba, did he?

    There is no way to know to know for sure what Kennedy might have done, but it is known that Lyndon Johnson did commit a half million troops to an unnecessary war in Vietnam.
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    Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    "Most likely"? So now you have a crystal ball huh? Look Ditto, despite your revisionist history lesson here the facts remain that----

    "By 1963, there were 16,000 American military personnel in South Vietnam, up from Eisenhower's 900 advisors.[151]"

    and further

    "The Strategic Hamlet Program had been initiated in 1961. This joint U.S.-South Vietnamese program attempted to resettle the rural population into fortified camps. The aim was to isolate the population from the insurgents, provide reeducation programs and health care, and strengthen the government's hold over the countryside. The Strategic Hamlets, however, were quickly infiltrated by the guerrillas. The peasants resented being uprooted from their ancestral villages. In part, this was because Colonel Pham Ngoc Thao, a Diệm favorite who was instrumental in running the program, was in fact a communist agent who used his Catholicism to gain influential posts and damage South Vietnam from the inside."

    Then we have-----

    "U.S military advisors were embedded at every level of the South Vietnamese armed forces. They were, however, almost completely ignorant of the political nature of the insurgency. The insurgency was a political power struggle, in which military engagements were not the main goal.[158] The Kennedy administration sought to refocus U.S. efforts on pacification and "winning over the hearts and minds" of the population."

    Vietnam War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Wow, where have we heard that strategy recently? Oh yeah, from the Bush administration....Whenever the US gets involved in "Nation Building" we do it poorly, and usually with not nearly enough force to make it stick. Kennedy was weak in his pacifism, and Khrushchev knew it, and exploited it, especially in VN...

    To look at what Kennedy would have, or wouldn't have done in concerns, I don't think that increasing troop levels would have been off the table with him, after all he tripled the numbers in his time. And remember his own words:

    "pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and success of liberty."

    The problem with liberals, and academics is that they often cherry pick what they want to believe about a President, and often re write the narrative to fit that, even if it just isn't so.
    I'm really not sure what any of that has to do with "liberal" vs. "conservative" as both presidents were Democrats anyway, or how Kennedy's "pacifism" indicates he would have gotten embroiled in the big muddy the way Johnson did. In fact, if he was a "pacifist", that makes it even less likely that he would have done so, doesn't it?

    Would Kennedy have sent a half million soldiers into Vietnam to fight a war on false assumptions? Would he have wound up abdicating the presidency as his successor did? There is no way to know, of course. Oswald saw to it that we could never definitively answer that question. Given Kennedy's leadership during the Cuban Missile crisis, it seems unlikely that he would have fallen for the "domino theory" or the "my country right or wrong" hawks.


    But, of course, there is no way to prove he would have or wouldn't have.

    Oh, BTW, it was Mao, not Khrushchev who was supporting the Vietnamese.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    He didn't get us into a war with Cuba, did he?

    There is no way to know to know for sure what Kennedy might have done, but it is known that Lyndon Johnson did commit a half million troops to an unnecessary war in Vietnam.
    LBJ merely continued Kennedys policy of expanding our military presence in vietnam. Kennedy was an anti communist and very much a hawk.
    John Fitzgerald Kennedy was a fervent believer in containing communism. In his first speech on becoming president, Kennedy made it clear that he would continue the policy of the former President, Dwight Eisenhower, and support the government of Diem in South Vietnam. Kennedy also made it plain that he supported the ‘Domino Theory’ and he was convinced that if South Vietnam fell to communism, then other states in the region would as a consequence. This Kennedy was not prepared to contemplate.

    Kennedy received conflicting advice with regards to Vietnam. Charles De Gaulle warned Kennedy that Vietnam and warfare in Vietnam would trap America in a “bottomless military and political swamp”. This was based on the experience the French had at Dien Bien Phu, which left a sizeable psychological scar of French foreign policy for some years. However, Kennedy had more daily contact with ‘hawks’ in Washington DC who believed that American forces would be far better equipped and prepared for conflict in Vietnam than the French had been. They believed that just a small increase in US support for Diem would ensure success in Vietnam. The ‘hawks’ in particular were strong supporters in the ‘Domino Theory’.
    John F Kennedy and Vietnam

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    Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

    IKE/Nixon took over Vietnam from the French in 1954 and Nixon took over from LBJ in 1969 and finished his Vietnam war. Ain't revision grand? Wars have overlapped administrations forever. Only hackish posters claim otherwise .
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    Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    So whats the chump in chief going to do now? Nothing, thats what.
    And when the U-2 was shot down by the Soviets, the Presidents Eisenhower and Kennedy were totally like "Hell yes, we were spying on you folks! If you don't give us back our pilot we will blow you to hell!"

    Oh wait, they didn't.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    You do understand the bin Laden capture was based on intelligence that began during Bush's term, right?

    And now your dear leader has decided we need to reduce military spending and troop numbers. How perfectly convenient for the enemy that is.
    For the record, Obama did not decide to reduce military spending... that was an act of Congress. If you remember correctly, Congress, as a group, preferred the draconian cuts of sequestration over a deal that would reduce deficits through a combination of measured cuts, entitlement restructuring and tax increases.... For the record, Congress cut military spending...

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    Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    And when the U-2 was shot down by the Soviets, the Presidents Eisenhower and Kennedy were totally like "Hell yes, we were spying on you folks! If you don't give us back our pilot we will blow you to hell!"

    Oh wait, they didn't.
    Your analogy is flawed...the U-2 was flying over the Soviet Union, comrade. This drone was flying (with permission) over Ukraine. See how it works?

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    Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Your analogy is flawed...the U-2 was flying over the Soviet Union, comrade. This drone was flying (with permission) over Ukraine. See how it works?
    Ah no, it's still relevant. Russia has control over the drone. What do you expect our President to do in this situation, exactly? They have our technology, they embarrassed us a tiny bit, but what do you want, really? Stomp around demanding they "give it back"?
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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